Z284ever, read the above. There it is in black and white for you.

Wants the big-gun motor and suspension, not willing to pay the price to get it... and believe you me, that price is going to include all kinds of doo-dads.

He who pays the mostest gets the fastest car.

 

I would bet that for every GT-500 buyer, there is someone else that would buy the same type Camaro for the same price.

 

W.T.F. ?? I never said anything about price! I would expect it to cost the same if not MORE, but in the ballpark of the GT-500. And also, since when did the LS2 become the big gun motor that no one would be willing to pay 40k for?? Get real.

 

Well then, there ya have it. I guess there is a market for a 450hp Camaro.

 

Well then I guess I'd still have to say yes although low mileage 'vettes would start to be a consideration at the >$40K level.

I'm sure the list goes beyond this but isn't the HUD and nav system an option on the C6? (and therefore the ZO6) Even the passenger power seat was an option on the C5 ZO6.

 

Follow me here very closely...

The top-gun performance car in the lineup will also have the highest option content.

It'll have special wheels and paint and leather and all kinds of other doo-dads, and WILL NOT be some stripped box with a terrific suspension, gigantic brakes and a monster motor.

Not happening.

You're going to be able to buy it one way - loaded.

 

One things for sure, whether we agree or not, whether we like it or not, Ford WILL have a 450hp Mustang, Dodge PROBABLY WILL have a 400+ hp Challenger (they already have the engine after all), and with that being the case, Camaro MUST be competitive at that level with SOME model, who really cares what its called? Would I spend 40k on a Camaro? I don't know, but I do know that if the competition has a big stick, Camaro should have one too.

 

CLEAN, unfortunately, i think you're wrong.

Unlike Mustang, Camaro is not a halo car. Corvette is. GTO wants to be.

Who would line up for a $40k camaro when you could get a vette for abot the same money and be as fast as the camaro in style. Or pay less than $40k and be in a much nicer GTO that still has 4 seats.

Yes, i said much nicer GTO. Because even assuming the 5th gen is a vast improvement from the 4th gen, i don't see how they can sell the kind of volume of cars they'd need to justify camaro if it's not much cheaper than a GTO. And it's hard to dress up a car that sells for low 20s in base trim to make it anywhere near as nice as a $30k car. Let alone $40k.


Hell, even mustang better be careful with high dollar special models. There were 04 cobras sitting on lots forever and it was trhe fastest thing on wheels. Most potential buyers were probably totally turned off by the fact that for the same money you could buy any number of MUCH nicer cars even if the cobra would suck their doors clean off. I could have bought a cobra if i wanted a motor in a box. I opted for a GTO because there's a lot more to life than squeezing the throttle and the cobra reminded me of a cowrokers hyundai interior, except NOT as nice.

 

I am personally inclined to agree, but in no way can the 3rd gen be used to support the notion that the Z28 was really above the SS since there was no SS during that gen. I made my comments in an effort to take the whole 3rd gen case out of play.

 

You mean like the FRC a few years ago? I guess we're not communicating here, because I'm trying to agree with you, except I'm trying to say that a Z/28 type car might forgo things like convertibles and T-tops to maintain the best possible structure, and may forgo leather to get grippier cloth that is more in line with what the car is "designed/marketed" for. My personal guess is that the Z/28 would be road raced about as much as a 4x4 SUV goes offroading.

 

And therein lies the rub. You can get leather on the Z06. You can get HUD on the Z06, and in the case of the C6 Z06, it will come with the Nav system. Why? Because it has been proven time and time again that top-gun models don't sell with options stripped off of them. As Pacer keeps trying to tell you, the guy who spends $40,000 on his Z28 because he wants the quickest car will not accept the fact that he can't also get the leather seats that the $28,000 SS is available with.

The C5 Z06 was a great success yes, but there is A LOT of moaning that the Z06 is not available in anything other than a fixed-roof configuration. Dave Hill has stood his ground for better or worse on that one.

 

And that's why i keep throwing out the idea of making Z28 be equivalent to the original 1LE formula. Granted my post hasn't been up long, but i still cannot believe that people are asking for Z28 to be a top dog road course king, yet they also don't care that it will be $$$ and that with $$$ comes heavy *** options. So while they drag their 400hp 3800lb Z28 around the track, a 3600lb 350hp SS 5.3 is passing them in every corner.

ZO6 at least has weight reduction to make up for options. A mass produced car like camaro will never get such treatment. And if Z28 is the heaviest model option on the checklist, then it has totally lost it's mission.

 

We have a WINNER!

Call it whatever you want, but the most expensive car will be the fastest car with the highest option content, and that's that.

Now, the car with the recent history of selling at the higher price point has "SS" badges on the fenders. SS buyers will PAY for hood scoops and leather and bigger wheels and tires and different differentials and Bilsteins.

Z28 buyers, at least in the last generation WOULD NOT.

 

So I see this has turned into yet another Z28 vs SS thread?

 

Hmmmm good question, I guess it depends. Beyond the argument that $40K really starts bending Camaro's price formula.....if what that $40k bought me, was a loaded 3,900 lbs luxo-cruiser.....then no (more like hell no). That's not what I'm looking for. Besides, I hate chrome wheels...they're for pansies. If that $40K buys me some light weight forged wheels, Brembo brakes, lots of aluminum and titanium bits, world class chassis, fire-breathing motor and sweet shifting gearbox...I could be seduced.

But $40K is just an arbitrary number anyway. For one, how much more does a 5.4 mod motor, with forged internals, 4v heads, blower and intercooler cost than a 450 hp LSx smallblock? 2 grand more? 3 grand more? More grand more? That's just the motor. Stock for stock...a GT500 beating (in total performance) Camaro, could be sold profitably for FAR less than $40K, IMO.

But getting back to the luxo-cruiser, I know lots of guys who would think a loaded Camaro......yes, even with those ghastly chrome wheels....is the epitome of Camaro-ness. I also know just as many guys who are looking for EXACTLY the formula I'm jonesin' for.

The smart product planner would want to appeal to both groups....don't you think?