Corvette VS New Camaro
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,011
From: Exton, Pennsylvania
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
Originally Posted by CLEAN
The thing is, all of this is OPINION, there is no right or wrong. Some people want to see SS on top, some want to see Z/28, others still wouldn't mind a shared role like the first few years of the cars existence. Thats just the way it is. My personal opinion is that Chevrolet decided to call the V8 Camaro Z28 when the 4th gen started. Fine. But once the SS came out, sure it was faster, handled better, costs more (good for GM), ect, so it is "top dog". Fine. But then comes 2001, Z06 pops up as a, in Corvette terms, "stripped" no nonsense top dog Corvette. And all of a sudden, people realize that there is an opportunity for Camaro to do the same thing. This exact same thing happened with Camaro 20 years ago, and the result was the Z/28 name being dropped altogether due to there basically being no need for it. Only difference was, back then, you could already get a car that was "stripped" and had some upgraded performance stuff built it, but it already had a name, 1LE. Fast forward to now. SS proved people would step up and pay more green for more content. Fine. Once again, I think MOST of us frankly don't see a role for the Z/28 name in the new car if it was going to be nothing more than a Camaro V8, since the SS proved to be a viable brand. But since the Z06, now a new role for the Z/28 moniker has become a POSSIBLILITY. A possibility that just so happens to fit the orignal RPOZ28 to perfection! How better to have a Z/28 than to bring it back to what it orignally was? A desireable car in its own right, which these days stands proud along the SS350's and SS396's as some of the most highly coveted Camaros of the time. All this talk about top model is kind of irrelevant. I think this whole discussion should boil down to finding a suitable role for the Z/28 name, since the SS has proven it can be a success in the top performance/price category. Otherwise, just leave Z/28 out of it and give the base car a V-8 option.
The more I think about it, the more I think that my Z/28 scenario has more to do with the Z51 option than the Z06, simply because we know, or are pretty sure that we won't get a stouter engine than the SS. But if you could order RPOZ28 and get drilled rotors, better gearing, better tires, stiffer suspension...why not? If you could get those things on an SS, I suppose you wouldn't need the option for RPOZ28, unless you wanted the hardware, without paying for all the stuff you didn't want like t-tops, leather, navi, ect.
Hypothetical....Lets say Camaro lived on in 2003 and beyond. Chevrolet pulls an IROC and drops the Z/28 name, but instead makes it an option. How about this lineup...base-V6, optional LS1. SS-LS1 only. RPOZ28, drilled rotors, gearing, bilstien suspension, bigger catback, 345hp package, 18's, basically all the SLP options you could get on the SS at the time (I know you couldn't get the drilled rotors, or gears, its just an example). And lets say you could get RPOZ28 on either the base-V8 car, or the SS. On the base car, you could call it Z28 if you wanted to, but if combined w/ the SS, the SS badges would take priority, just as they did when you ordered an SS/RS back in the day. There, now you have a Z28 that is indeed a step up on base V8 Camaros, and on an equal footing w/ SS's in terms of performance, but you wouldn't have to pay for the SS's hoodscoop, and spoiler IF YOU DIDN'T WANT THEM. I know personally would have LOVED to have had the SS's bilstein suspension on my car, but I wasn't going to spend 4 grand for the privlege of buying a $1000 suspension upgrade.
That's what it boils down to. Give the Z/28 name a viable reason to live, or don't have it at all, certainly don't have it as a plain jane Camaro with a V8 and a black roof.
The more I think about it, the more I think that my Z/28 scenario has more to do with the Z51 option than the Z06, simply because we know, or are pretty sure that we won't get a stouter engine than the SS. But if you could order RPOZ28 and get drilled rotors, better gearing, better tires, stiffer suspension...why not? If you could get those things on an SS, I suppose you wouldn't need the option for RPOZ28, unless you wanted the hardware, without paying for all the stuff you didn't want like t-tops, leather, navi, ect.
Hypothetical....Lets say Camaro lived on in 2003 and beyond. Chevrolet pulls an IROC and drops the Z/28 name, but instead makes it an option. How about this lineup...base-V6, optional LS1. SS-LS1 only. RPOZ28, drilled rotors, gearing, bilstien suspension, bigger catback, 345hp package, 18's, basically all the SLP options you could get on the SS at the time (I know you couldn't get the drilled rotors, or gears, its just an example). And lets say you could get RPOZ28 on either the base-V8 car, or the SS. On the base car, you could call it Z28 if you wanted to, but if combined w/ the SS, the SS badges would take priority, just as they did when you ordered an SS/RS back in the day. There, now you have a Z28 that is indeed a step up on base V8 Camaros, and on an equal footing w/ SS's in terms of performance, but you wouldn't have to pay for the SS's hoodscoop, and spoiler IF YOU DIDN'T WANT THEM. I know personally would have LOVED to have had the SS's bilstein suspension on my car, but I wasn't going to spend 4 grand for the privlege of buying a $1000 suspension upgrade.
That's what it boils down to. Give the Z/28 name a viable reason to live, or don't have it at all, certainly don't have it as a plain jane Camaro with a V8 and a black roof.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,574
From: Arlington, Texas
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
Originally Posted by Doug Harden
With the exception of there being No more LS1's....the SS/Z/28 will get the LS2 (and then some)...
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,011
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
In response to Clean, great post. Just some ramb liing thoughts:
Base Camaro Sport coupe-v6
Camaro RS-Entry level v-8 Package
Z/28 option for RS, get's SS suspension, tires(wheels could be unique), breaks etc, but with RS level trim. 5.4l 3xx hp. 6m or 5a
SS-Unique trim and higher power motor, z/28 level suspenion standard.
Just some ideas, for what they are worth.
Base Camaro Sport coupe-v6
Camaro RS-Entry level v-8 Package
Z/28 option for RS, get's SS suspension, tires(wheels could be unique), breaks etc, but with RS level trim. 5.4l 3xx hp. 6m or 5a
SS-Unique trim and higher power motor, z/28 level suspenion standard.
Just some ideas, for what they are worth.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
Originally Posted by 91Z28350
In response to Clean, great post. Just some ramb liing thoughts:
Base Camaro Sport coupe-v6
Camaro RS-Entry level v-8 Package
Z/28 option for RS, get's SS suspension, tires(wheels could be unique), breaks etc, but with RS level trim. 5.4l 3xx hp. 6m or 5a
SS-Unique trim and higher power motor, z/28 level suspenion standard.
Just some ideas, for what they are worth.
Base Camaro Sport coupe-v6
Camaro RS-Entry level v-8 Package
Z/28 option for RS, get's SS suspension, tires(wheels could be unique), breaks etc, but with RS level trim. 5.4l 3xx hp. 6m or 5a
SS-Unique trim and higher power motor, z/28 level suspenion standard.
Just some ideas, for what they are worth.
lemme chew on this for a minute.......
Z/28 is an option for RS only...but doesn't get any Z/28 stuff, since it's only a Z/28 . SS, on the other hand, gets a Z/28 suspension as standard....because, well...it's an SS....a Z/28 suspension which BTW is....ummmm....not available on the Z/28....which gets the SS suspension, (which is not available on the SS...because SS gets the Z/28 suspension...which of course is not available on the Z/28, since it gets the SS suspension).....only when ordered on an RS.
That's it...I'm gonna quit drinking the Kool-Aid now.
Last edited by Z284ever; Jun 28, 2005 at 02:50 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 808
From: manassas, VA
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
How can the Z28 be a top car, when being top car means heavy options, period. The ZO6 analogy is retarded, camaro is dirt next to corvette and won't get any of the special lightweight treatment, period.
So people here would really want an extra couple hundred pounds just to get the top engine. So as i suspected, the Z28 people aren't actually road racers at all, just people that think Z28 is better than SS. Which flys in the face of the fACt that in a given year, SS has ALWAYS had the most available power in EVERY car line to fly an SS badge for it's model year.
What's the precedent for Z28 being the top car. Oh, it was a 'special option' for first gens, that also included the smallest V8 ever put in a camaro.
So people here would really want an extra couple hundred pounds just to get the top engine. So as i suspected, the Z28 people aren't actually road racers at all, just people that think Z28 is better than SS. Which flys in the face of the fACt that in a given year, SS has ALWAYS had the most available power in EVERY car line to fly an SS badge for it's model year.
What's the precedent for Z28 being the top car. Oh, it was a 'special option' for first gens, that also included the smallest V8 ever put in a camaro.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Okay....
lemme chew on this for a minute.......
Z/28 is an option for RS only...but doesn't get any Z/28 stuff, since it's only a Z/28 . SS, on the other hand, gets a Z/28 suspension as standard....because, well...it's an SS....a Z/28 suspension which BTW is....ummmm....not available on the Z/28....which gets the SS suspension, (which is not available on the SS...because SS gets the Z/28 suspension...which of course is not available on the Z/28, since it gets the SS suspension).....only when ordered on an RS.
lemme chew on this for a minute.......
Z/28 is an option for RS only...but doesn't get any Z/28 stuff, since it's only a Z/28 . SS, on the other hand, gets a Z/28 suspension as standard....because, well...it's an SS....a Z/28 suspension which BTW is....ummmm....not available on the Z/28....which gets the SS suspension, (which is not available on the SS...because SS gets the Z/28 suspension...which of course is not available on the Z/28, since it gets the SS suspension).....only when ordered on an RS.
Make Z28 a wheel/tire/suspension/braking package. If you buy an RS and check the Z28 box, you get the above package. Make it cool with Bilsteins and Brembos and a beefier rear end and better springs and such. This is somewhat in keeping with what the Z/28 package really was - a roadracing package.
RS's get the base suspension and the mid-level V8.
The only way to make a Z28 out of an RS is to order the Z28 suspension package. Then you have a Z28 and you avoid the rest of the options associated with the SS.
If you order an SS, you automagically get the Z28 suspension and the highest power V8, and ALL SS's are BY DEFINITION Z28's.
There. Then we're both happy. You get your Z/28, I get my SS, and life is good all the way around.
Also, you could make the Z/28 package available for the V6 cars, but in that case you wouldn't call it Z/28 since that would be kind of an insult to the tradition of the nomenclature.
Call it the "Whiz-bang cool X11 sport suspension package" or some such bu!!****. Just keep all the parts except for the wheels common. Z/28 should mean special wheels and wide tires... Maybe the SS wheels are available in chrome and the standard Z/28 wheels are not. Keep the dimensions the same either way.
Originally Posted by Z284ever
That's it...I'm gonna quit drinking the Kool-Aid now.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
Originally Posted by notgetleft
...that also included the smallest V8 ever put in a camaro.
EDIT: Yep! I found it!
1980:
L-39 267 (2bbl) V8 120 bhp @ 3600 rpm, 215 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm.
1981:
L-39 267 (2bbl) V8 115 bhp @ 4000 rpm, 200 lb-ft @ 2400 rpm.
The motor make PEAK power at 3600 rpm???? Hell, that's a DIESEL.
That's just sick and wrong. Shame on you Chevrolet, SHAME ON YOU!
Last edited by PacerX; Jun 28, 2005 at 04:03 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,011
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Okay....
lemme chew on this for a minute.......
Z/28 is an option for RS only...but doesn't get any Z/28 stuff, since it's only a Z/28 . SS, on the other hand, gets a Z/28 suspension as standard....because, well...it's an SS....a Z/28 suspension which BTW is....ummmm....not available on the Z/28....which gets the SS suspension, (which is not available on the SS...because SS gets the Z/28 suspension...which of course is not available on the Z/28, since it gets the SS suspension).....only when ordered on an RS.
That's it...I'm gonna quit drinking the Kool-Aid now.
lemme chew on this for a minute.......
Z/28 is an option for RS only...but doesn't get any Z/28 stuff, since it's only a Z/28 . SS, on the other hand, gets a Z/28 suspension as standard....because, well...it's an SS....a Z/28 suspension which BTW is....ummmm....not available on the Z/28....which gets the SS suspension, (which is not available on the SS...because SS gets the Z/28 suspension...which of course is not available on the Z/28, since it gets the SS suspension).....only when ordered on an RS.
That's it...I'm gonna quit drinking the Kool-Aid now.
v6 Camaro sport coupe, base model.
RS-A 303 Hp v-8 model with upgraded trim (options on the base coupe).
Z/28 an option package on the RS, consiting of bigger brakes, wheels and tires, more "sport" oriented suspension components. Has a nice interior, but not necessarily all the doo-dads that the top of the line SS would have. Higher performance version of the 327, I believe there is a 355 hp version being planned for the trucks? Make the SS motor optional? could wear Z/28/RS badginig, or just Z/28. Reason, a throw back to the heritage of the Camaro, about as retro as I hope the new car goes.
SS-Higher horsepower motor, Z/28 suspension components, higher feature content standard, more luxo items available (nav, hud, side curtain airbags). Unique hood and/or spoiler, unique wheels.
Honestly, I really don't care if the SS and Z/28 roles are reversed. I just imagine a Z/28 as a leaner, meaner car with plenty of performance. Give the Z (or SS) a role other than that of a stripped down car.
Anyways, I hope that is a clearer explanation of what I originally meant to say.
PS-Thanks for a good laugh, even if it was at my own expense!
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,479
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
Originally Posted by PacerX
Well then you'd be wrong. Ask Cosby sometime what happens in his drag racing class if he gets 275's and everybody else gets 255's.
I discovered quite by accident one day that the stack of 4 - 245 (or are they 255) - 16 original tires on original rims on my 1LE is exactly the same height as the stack of 275-17s on original rims that came on the SS. Just as interesting, a stack of 275-17 BFG KD's and Hoosier AS03's is 4 inches higher than the stockers.
No one has mentioned that the 4th gen SS is a bit of a oddball as it originated as a 2nd sticker package from SLP and then got "adopted" by Chevy.
On the vs. Corvette front ...what is a Corvette SS.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,011
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
Originally Posted by PacerX
Well, it confused me too, but now I think I get what he's driving at:
Originally Posted by PacerX
There. Then we're both happy. You get your Z/28, I get my SS, and life is good all the way around.
Originally Posted by PacerX
Switch to coffee and Marlboros. They keep me calm and collected so that I can win friends and influence people with my easygoing and conservative demeanor.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,574
From: Arlington, Texas
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
Somethings wrong, its starting to sound like theres some agreement going on here!
Heres a little Corvette hypothetical to be thrown into this Corvette vs Camaro thread....
Hypothetical...The LS2 is standard in the targa and covertible. The LS7 is standard in the Z06 and OPTIONAL in the targa and convertible. The Z06 would remain exactly as it is now, and the coupe and vert would gain whatever hardware upgrades the Z06 has to sustain the LS7, but none of the lightweight components or Z06 suspension or brakes.
Now then, compare a C6 targa w/ the LS7, and the Z06 with the same motor. Which one is top dog? The faster, better handling, better braking, more expensive, but non-targa or vert, no automatic, no optional suspension Z06...or the marginally slower, but better equiped targa? Don't explain how the Z06 has higher performing parts to justify it not having certain options the targa and vert have, just choose...Z06 or targa w/ the LS7
Heres a little Corvette hypothetical to be thrown into this Corvette vs Camaro thread....
Hypothetical...The LS2 is standard in the targa and covertible. The LS7 is standard in the Z06 and OPTIONAL in the targa and convertible. The Z06 would remain exactly as it is now, and the coupe and vert would gain whatever hardware upgrades the Z06 has to sustain the LS7, but none of the lightweight components or Z06 suspension or brakes.
Now then, compare a C6 targa w/ the LS7, and the Z06 with the same motor. Which one is top dog? The faster, better handling, better braking, more expensive, but non-targa or vert, no automatic, no optional suspension Z06...or the marginally slower, but better equiped targa? Don't explain how the Z06 has higher performing parts to justify it not having certain options the targa and vert have, just choose...Z06 or targa w/ the LS7
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,574
From: Arlington, Texas
Re: Corvette VS New Camaro
Originally Posted by PacerX
Well, it confused me too, but now I think I get what he's driving at:
Make Z28 a wheel/tire/suspension/braking package. If you buy an RS and check the Z28 box, you get the above package. Make it cool with Bilsteins and Brembos and a beefier rear end and better springs and such. This is somewhat in keeping with what the Z/28 package really was - a roadracing package.
RS's get the base suspension and the mid-level V8.
The only way to make a Z28 out of an RS is to order the Z28 suspension package. Then you have a Z28 and you avoid the rest of the options associated with the SS.
If you order an SS, you automagically get the Z28 suspension and the highest power V8, and ALL SS's are BY DEFINITION Z28's.
There. Then we're both happy. You get your Z/28, I get my SS, and life is good all the way around.
Make Z28 a wheel/tire/suspension/braking package. If you buy an RS and check the Z28 box, you get the above package. Make it cool with Bilsteins and Brembos and a beefier rear end and better springs and such. This is somewhat in keeping with what the Z/28 package really was - a roadracing package.
RS's get the base suspension and the mid-level V8.
The only way to make a Z28 out of an RS is to order the Z28 suspension package. Then you have a Z28 and you avoid the rest of the options associated with the SS.
If you order an SS, you automagically get the Z28 suspension and the highest power V8, and ALL SS's are BY DEFINITION Z28's.
There. Then we're both happy. You get your Z/28, I get my SS, and life is good all the way around.
