Z284ever

I'm not sure if there would be a direct Camaro competitor for GT500. GT500 will have lots of power...with potential for lots more.

On the other hand, there are no 3800 lbs Camaros being planned, (not anymore, anyways ). And if Mustang doesn't get the mid cycle suspension enhancements, Phil Martens promised, I predict a 5th gen Z/28 will eat a GT500 on the twisties - regardless of power difference.

97z28/m6

PacerX

And right there is where this little fantasy the Z28 folks have breaks down - you may have some measure of expectation of that, but the folks that actually had the money and bought the cars voted with their wallets... and I'll guarantee you that the rest of the Z28 posse will chime in with a raft of complaints if the car has leather, or a HUD, or a Monsoon stereo, or special paint, or chrome wheels (one of them just set that... see above... he wants forged with no chrome...).

According to my memory of the information passed along, the SS buyers have a history of paying more for the vehicle over the life of the F4... Their demographics are different, they're older, and the they make more $$$.

You're not getting a stripped car with a gigantic engine and all kinds of performance doo-dads. Ain't happening. The most highly contented car will have the highest performance and the highest price tag and the most profit...

And the vehicle with the latest and most decisive history of moving the iron under those market conditions has... you guessed it... "SS" decals on the fenders.

Money talks. My opinion is that if the demographics didn't show that the SS buyers were willing to part with more cash for their car than a Z28 buyer you'd have a prayer of seeing it happen... but the guy who spends the most deserves the fastest and most well equipped car for his money.

Z284ever

The flaw in the 4th gen analogy is this....

The 4th gen had no Z/28 model in the traditional sense.....it had a mundane looking V8 base car with a Z28 emblem affixed to it. It also didn't have an SS model in the traditional sense either. It had a car with a Z/28 scoop, Z/28 tires and optional Z/28 suspension with an SS emblem on it......that was FAR more visually appealing than the frumpy base car...and people were happy to pay a premium for that. That was the strategy. To channel buyers into afew thousand higher profit cars per year, on a dying/dead car line.


I don't think anyone in their right mind advocates that the 5th gen Z/28 merely be nothing more than a stripped base car with a V8, nor that the 5th gen SS be nothing more than a VERRRRRY pricey fake hoodscoop/wheels/ numbered floor mats package.....nor that the 5th gen mirror any sort of failed 4th gen paradigm. That would be....well....kinda stupid. I think this time they actually want to sell some cars.
Smart people at GM are beginning to have their voices heard. They'll know what to do.

jg95z28

Basically the 4th gen SS was a trim package on top of the base Z28; 99.9% of those add-ons were purely cosmetic.

If there are going to be two levels of performance 5th gen Camaro, then make the SS the V8 performance model for the masses with loads of add-ons an options. The Z28 then could use the Z06 formula. (Please note that I said formula and not drivetrain.) Meaning, the Z28 would come with a color option and that's it.

notgetleft

I agree with pacer. I think at this point, it's WAY too late to return the SS to being the base V8 car with Z28 being the top of the line with best handling model. It's been OVER 30 YEARS since the camaro used that type of naming scheme. In the 30 YEARS since, Z28 has been the base V8 car.

Just like Pontiac's recent retarded obsession with throwing GT/GTP/GXP names at cars with varying intents, i think trying to swap the mission of badges that have been in place for over 30 years is a dumb idea that will only make the most **** of pursist happy.

Then again, maybe calling the base V8 an SS will trick people into thinking they're buying the prestige model since it most recently was top dog. The flip side is, the z28 name is forever going to be thought of as the base car, so trying to mark it up might make it flop.

Chris 96 WS6

Of course 4th Gen SS owners were the higher demographic, they were the more expensive car. Ergo the owners were older, higher income folks. I guess to say "stripped down" is a misstatement on my part though. The Z06 is by no means stripped down.

Z284ever

Nope. Do your homework.

Base Sport Coupes were "base" V8's. And V8 Berlinettas, and V8 LT's, and V8 RS's. And V8 SS's. 30 years is a long time, 38 years is even longer.

Only one gen used the strategy you speak of, (didn't quite last 30 years though). Coincidentally, the same gen put Camaro on hiatus.

91Z28350

Z28, SS, SS/RS, they can call it whatever they want. All I really care about is that the top model Camaro is Fast, Well Built and Stylish. Having it trounce everything under the Cobra (or better yet, having a top of the line model to do that as well!) would just be icing on the cake.

DrewSG

I agree with the masses though, I think the SS should be left as the top V8. Majority of the people out there think the 4th gen SS's were substantially faster than the Z28 models themselves.

Z284ever

Masses?

3rdGenNut

I've alway thought about it like this.
Base = masses
rs = appearance
z-28 = performance
SS = High end options combination(luxury, fluff, whatever)
JMO.

Z28Wilson

Charlie, I respect you a lot. But I simply DESPISE the insinuation that the 4th Gen quote "put Camaro on hiatus." The Camaro was selling about as well as could be expected considering many things, and even if it sold in significantly higher quantities, the way everything played out, no one can be sure the Camaro would have continued on uninterrupted into the 5th Gen.

CLEAN

I guess I don't understand all the hate regarding a Cobra level Camaro. All these people saying no way to a 450 horse Camarro...why not? We all know and have seen big glossy pictures of the new Shelby, and if the Camaro team doesn't come out w/ something that will at least hang w/ it if not outright beat it, the Mustang/Ford people and the Mustang loving press will be rubbing it in GM's faces for years.

And as far as the average SS buyer being willing to part w/ more money or whatever....duh. You could infer that EVERY buyer of the SS was willing to spend more simply because the car cost 3k more than the Z. That's not a very telling statistic to me. And I think the argument could be made that the Z moniker could be used as a level above the SS simply because the only Z car out there also happens to be the fastest car GM has ever built. I've always been an advocate of a separate but equal stance regarding the top Camaro. I don't see why a Z/28 w/ a 425hp engine and an SS w/ the same couldn't co-exist, even if they were close to the same price point. The SS gets the appearance stuff and electronic do dads, the Z spends it's money on forged rims, different gearing, and brembos. They're both highly contented, just w/ different missions. My favorite definition of the SS vs Z/28.......the CRUISER and the BRUISER.

notgetleft

Rats, nailed on a technicality. You're cool. I guess i should have said 'performance' V8 cars. As in there hasn't been an SS as anything but top dog since what, 72. I'm not going to do my homework since you'll correct me if i'm wrong anyway.

You're right, only one gen used SS as top dog. But it's the most recent one, you know, the one that matters. Let me explain this further, i don't think i'm making my point because you're not trying to see the way i think a non-hardcore camaro/chevy guy does.

To anyone under 30, probably 40 even, SS camaro means the baddest. To me the overwhelming image of early SS's that i've seen in my entire life are all big block, really nicely done small block cars, lots of drag cars, etc. Of the early Z28s, they're always museum style resto's so look / sound stock. Nothing about the car screams top dog, and face it, on the street it wasn't either (or at least that's what old timers tell me). A 302 is no match for a big block, period. The LT1 Z28s might have been nice, but face it, you say LT1, even your grandma pictures a fourth gen btw, LT-1, i know you were itching to correct me so i misspelled it on purpose.

So really, to be true to it's road racing roots, sticking a mid-power V8 in a stripped light car would be closest to a first gen. 1LE basically, especially if you return it to thirdgen roots where it doens't have power everything, etc. Make Z28 mean not fancy, not drag race over the top power.

SS would naturally have the highest powered engine. It was always the model with the most available power anyway. The big question is, should all V8 non-Z28s be SS's to simplify the model line. Just like SS 350 vs. SS 396. Screw having base V8 cars, if you want 2 engines in the base car, 2 V6s, call the hi-po the RS and give it upgraded trim, and even make an SS/RS as the luxo.

That'd be true to roots. Not acting lik the Z28s were all yenko 427 cars.