Whoa....I haven't bothered reading this thread until now.......and boy am I lucky.

This whole arguement boils down to what people think and what they remember what these models were or became.

When a few of us (Z/28 loyalists) first got on this mission, we simply wanted the Z/28 to become what it started life as. With the success of the Z06, we also saw (as did Chevy) a revived market for a factory built "tuner car".

I ask you.......what's so wrong with that?!?

Besides, I think we all know what the SS moniker has become....

I do know this, it is TOTALLY UNPRODUCTIVE for us to have this debate for the 10,000th time...there is nothing left of the horse's carcus to beat on....LET IT GO!!!!

Finally.....and I do me for me at least......from what I've dicerned...this decision has already been made................................... and I couldn't be happier.

 

I guess I'm getting a little lost...

Pacer says a stripper model won't sell if its the top priced model, because people buying the most expensive car want the most stuff.

But the Z06 has sold like HOTCAKES.

Wait, but its not a stripper....Well, but you can't exactly get every Corvette option on it either. In fact the new Z06 won't even have power seats. But the high tech stuff like XM and navigation will be available. (I think a plausible balance of deleted options and retained features can keep a top dog Z28 from being a "stripper" in the traditional sense")

I'm just not sure why a blend of weight limiting and performance enhancing option deletes wouldn't work well in a top dog Z28 as long as sufficient other racing hardware is offered. Charlie is right a GT500 fighting Z28, if its light enough and uses an N/A LSX motor, need not be $40,000 nor 450hp. 425hp might just do it and $37,500 might be realistic.

Yes, a fully loaded SS with all the bells and whistles may just come close to that price, or go over, but give the buyer a choice.

Yes Pacer you are right there is no history of Z/28 buyers dropping top dollar for that model, but I don't see how that's relevant. It is not as if this new Z28 would ONLY appeal to Z28 buyers. Its not as if there is a hardcore loyal l"Z28" faction out there and they are the only ones that will consider the car. Its also not as if a Z28 like what me and Charlie are suggesting has EVER really been offered.

If the Z28 is going to be just the base V8 performance model, then COUNT ME OUT. The neutering of the Z28 got old in the 4th gen and I don't care to be a part of it continuing. The Z/28 is supposed to be the handling model, the competition model, the all-around performer model. Sure, give the SS the big motor, and give it all the options plus the flashy looks. I'm with Charlie, chrome screams "look at me" not "race me".

If anyone here seriously thinks the Z06 meets the definition of stripper then yes people will and do pay top dollar for the stripper model. Anyone wanting a targa or convertible buy a regular Corvette. Are there buyers out there that wish the Z came in a targa or convertible? Of course, I hear them complaining all the time. But as was said above, Chevy's sticking to the true mission of the car. Are those buyers lost to Porsche and others? Maybe a few, but I would bet my *** that most of them end up buying a base or vert Corvette after all.

 

PX, I think that you're a pretty smart guy...so I'm sure that you, yourself, can see how ridiculous your statement is.

How do you know who would have paid for what. Those Z/28 features...like bigger wheels and hoodscoop...weren't even offered on Z/28. But if they were, how many people do you think would have paid 3 grand for the SS numbered floor mats. I'd say none.

 

Well, truth is they were all offered....in the SS option package, LOL. Turns out lots of "Z28 buyers" paid a premium for those options.

 

Ironic isn't it? To get Z/28 features on your Z/28...you had to order an SS package for it.

 

Pacer's point is far from ridiculous. How many Camaro buyers that wanted bigger wheels, hood scoop, optional spoiler, etc decided that the Z28 badge was more important than those options? SS buyers obviously were willing to pay more for those options, and proved it with their wallets. Z28 owners either: A. Couldn't afford an SS; B. Were not willing to pay for those options. We know that for a fact because they did not pay for those options. Simple logic. And again, if the guy really wanted his car to say Z28 on it and was willing to pay GM for those options, all he had to do was get an SS and change the badges.

 

Thats what I've been trying, albiet unsucessfully, to say. I never said "stripped" Z/28, BUT if there was something that could be left off in an effort to save weight, reduce cost, or be upgraded..all in the name of higher performance, whats the problem? To use the 4th gen as an example, the Z/28 could have been RPOZ28, that you could order on an SS even, and maybe all it would include would be hardtop only, stick only, cloth only, the bilstein suspension, the 345 hp package, and maybe some grippier tires. Something more in line w/ the best autocross type package that the company can come up with given the parts available. It would be less about top model this or that, it would just be an option that gave you the best combination of power and handling available. If it had the same weight and same power as an SS...so what? I doubt it would be any quicker, but it would probably handle a bit better.

 

As said, the Z28 (or Z/28) should be the all-around racer CAMARO! The current state of the SS name doesn't even deserve to be the top Camaro, since it never truly was anyway. SS is nonsense, usually a marketing strategy, Z28 meant something. The whole idea of the 4th SS was to be an IROC-like option on the Z28 to add appeal/performance, but it contained no Z anywhere in the name. ALSO, HOW stupid is it to say that "Z28 buyers" WON'T pay for a loaded Z28, WHEN THE Z28 WAS THE MOST EXPENSIVE MODEL FROM THE 1st Gen-Mid 4th Gen?!?! They did it for 26 years (no Z name for 2 years in the 70's or it'd be 28) whether there was tons of options for them or not! People also payed for loaded 350 TPI IROC-Z28's over and over again not so long ago, and they were pretty expensive for their time like SS was in the later 4th Gen. Z28's were always the most expensive Camaro's, (aside from the ZL1) SS's were only that way for 7 years. There needs to be a clear difference between the designations this time, with Z28 meaning something once again. It has to have it's own best in class characteristics with unique looks. Recognizing a car's history and what made it what it is, is extremely important. When you don't, people lose admiration, as many of us already have.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure if it's as much about the badge on the side as it is about how much content they wanted in the car. To say that Z/28 people are cheap....I don't know that I like that. My last 2 cars were a C5 and a CTS, and I like Z/28s just fine. Not so much because it says Z/28, in fact that has no bearing at all, if it just said Camaro on the side and had an LS1, that would be just as fine w/ me, which is all the last Z28 really was honestly.

 

H-E-L-L-O!

They were not offered on Z/28. How can you say who would have paid for what? Or that people were not WILLING to pay.


Let's add an option C. Some people said, Chevy won't build me a traditional Z/28, even though I can afford an SS, I'd rather buy a Bullitt/Mach 1/ Cobra.

 

That's not his point. . His point is that somehow the buyers would opt for the SS even if the Z/28 is the top performing car. That's a specious point at best.

The common denominator is that BUYERS GRAVITATE TOWARD THE TOP MODEL. Nothing changes about that if Z28 is the top model. It may not be fully loaded but it will have all the important stuff plus gobs of race hardware that the SS won't have.

The notion that the masses wouldn't buy a Z28 because of the Z28 moniker, regardless of how great the car is, is ridiculous.

 

No more specious than the idea that buyers won't buy the top performing car if it has "SS" on the side. As a matter of fact, since there is a demonstrated HISTORY for people paying more for SS's, and that history is very recent, it argues in favor of maintaining the status quo.


And therefore nothing changes if "SS" remains the top model and gets all the go-fast goodies.


As is the notion that the masses won't buy the SS because of the SS moniker, especially SINCE IT HAS THE MOST RECENT HISTORY OF BEING THE TOP PERFORMING AND MOST EXPENSIVE CAR.

 

Hypothetical:

Take the badges off the 4th gen SS and Z28 and swap them, same trim levels and options but the Z28 is now "SS" and vice versa. So now buyers have to pay extra to get the better optioned Z.

Now, how many buyers of the SS are going to stick to the SS and not upgrade to the Z?

We're talking here like there is some kind of class system where Z28 buyers are genetically hardwired to be lower end people who buy less car. All we're talking about it taking the Z28 out from under the SS and making it a more exclusive top model. Leave the SS where it is and change the Z from entry level v8 car to Z06-style barn burner.

I still don't see what's so hard about this? Of course Z28 buyers didn't get all the options, because Z28 wasn't available with all the options. But you're ann idiot if you sit here and tell me that if the Z28 were the top model that nobody would have bought it because they are programmed not to spend big money on the name Z28.

Pacer wants us to think Z06-Z28 advocates are suggesting you take the existing bland Z28 and just mark up the price and expect people to buy it over an SS. That is NOT what we've been advocating.

 

I never said they wouldn't. Recreating the existing model hierarchy might work out just fine. I'd just PREFER to re-structure the hierarchy so that Z28 is more like Z06 and less like Mustang LX.

DUH

Where did I ever say that? Where have I ONCE suggested that we MUST change the hierarchy because no one will buy a top dog SS? That has NEVER been my point. Show me the quote. I think you need to go back and re-read all my posts because you have clearly not been reading for comprehension.

 

First, the comparison of a Z06 and a Z28 in any form is a new thing. The Z06 is the top dog, end of discussion. The Z28 was never the fastest car possible when an SS was available, and in the 4th gen even lost the road-course king title.


That's great. Then we agree and since the SS has a better reason to remain the top-dog in EVERY area, because it actually WAS in the last generation and has the most recent history to back it up, there's no reason to change it.

Then we agree and the top car makes more sense as an SS than a Z28.

Great! Glad we settled that.