Who is Joe Overton ?
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,456
From: sarasota, fl
Originally posted by xxsaint69x
wow, u sure are a dumbass
wow, u sure are a dumbass
this was a good thread.......dont start with the insults or the mods will close it.
im not taking sides..........just saying keep it civil, cause id rather read more posts than see it get locked.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Originally posted by got_hp?
this WAS a good thread.......dont start with the insults or the mods will close it.
im not taking sides..........just saying keep it civil, cause id rather read more posts than see it get locked.
this WAS a good thread.......dont start with the insults or the mods will close it.
im not taking sides..........just saying keep it civil, cause id rather read more posts than see it get locked.
Registered User
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,889
From: Peachtree City, GA
Originally posted by 97 WS6 T/A Conv
Are you kidding me? You talk about how I run with my car and YOU can't pull anything better than a 12.7 while trapping 115?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!
I admit I suck at driving! What on earth is your excuse?!?
Are you kidding me? You talk about how I run with my car and YOU can't pull anything better than a 12.7 while trapping 115?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!
I admit I suck at driving! What on earth is your excuse?!?
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 336
From: Portsmouth,VA
I"m glad that so many people question Joe's cams. The fewer there are out there, the better off that I am. Who cares what anyone thinks? I know Joe doesn't.I asked him for help because I didn't have alot of cash, but didn't want to get left behind by all of my friends.Well lets just say that there are stroker LT1s around here that don't want any of the "BRUTL TA"! But hey, with 434rwtq at 4000rpm UNTUNED, I don't blame them! Enough talk. You guys will have some ETs next month. This isn't a show car and I ain't scared to let the hammer down.
Stay tuned,
Mystery Car
Stay tuned,
Mystery Car
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 10,745
From: Buffalo, New York
At the risk of getting caught up in the kitty-kat fight, I want to point out that unless you are talking about cars that are fairly close in gearing, weight, and in a number of other respects that comparing time slips doesn't tell you too much about how well a cam is working. There's just to many variables in the 1/4m equation to use a time slip that way. Now, if it's before and after on the same car, that tells you a lot.
Rich Krause
Rich Krause
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 336
From: Portsmouth,VA
Originally posted by rskrause
At the risk of getting caught up in the kitty-kat fight, I want to point out that unless you are talking about cars that are fairly close in gearing, weight, and in a number of other respects that comparing time slips doesn't tell you too much about how well a cam is working. There's just to many variables in the 1/4m equation to use a time slip that way. Now, if it's before and after on the same car, that tells you a lot.
Rich Krause
At the risk of getting caught up in the kitty-kat fight, I want to point out that unless you are talking about cars that are fairly close in gearing, weight, and in a number of other respects that comparing time slips doesn't tell you too much about how well a cam is working. There's just to many variables in the 1/4m equation to use a time slip that way. Now, if it's before and after on the same car, that tells you a lot.
Rich Krause
Registered User
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 989
From: Baton Rouge, la
dang...this is nuts. I don't blame joe for getting paid for his work. Thats what makes the world go round. In this hobby you usually get what you pay for. Want to run WITH the pack get what they have...want to run INFROUNT of the pack try something new. Joe has proven that he can make above average hp...how people use that hp is what produces et/mph numbers. Getting paid for you knowledge is what we all do...and that is what gets you hired by a company. Speed = money...its that simple. Joe puts alot of time in designing a cam for someone that wants one from him..its only right that he should get compensated for that time.
that being said, I met joe at the thunder shootout. Nice guy and he had no problem sharing his knowledge with people in the pits. I doubt he was giving away cam specs..but I saw him tune a fast system on a ls1 car for HOURS trying to get it right for him..all in the spirit of helping your fellow racers and advancing the sport. Anyone that thinks joe is in this just for the money is dead wront. I think that car was even in his class so he was helping his competition.
I agree with rich...compairing ets is a hard thing to do. Too many factors involved...throw in a manual tranny and all bets are off. Et in a manual car is all about launch and getting through the gears hard and fast. thats 3 gear changes and one launch that can dramatically affect your et. Put it this way...I've broke a driveshaft right BEFORE the 1/8th mile mark(driveshaft took out the timing lights) and coasted to a 11.89 at 68 mph.....wanna know how...a 1.48 60' and 100 mph at the 8th. Saying one car can do something if I had this and that is just nuts. You never know untill you do it and put it on the track..everything else is just bench racing.
Tim
that being said, I met joe at the thunder shootout. Nice guy and he had no problem sharing his knowledge with people in the pits. I doubt he was giving away cam specs..but I saw him tune a fast system on a ls1 car for HOURS trying to get it right for him..all in the spirit of helping your fellow racers and advancing the sport. Anyone that thinks joe is in this just for the money is dead wront. I think that car was even in his class so he was helping his competition.
I agree with rich...compairing ets is a hard thing to do. Too many factors involved...throw in a manual tranny and all bets are off. Et in a manual car is all about launch and getting through the gears hard and fast. thats 3 gear changes and one launch that can dramatically affect your et. Put it this way...I've broke a driveshaft right BEFORE the 1/8th mile mark(driveshaft took out the timing lights) and coasted to a 11.89 at 68 mph.....wanna know how...a 1.48 60' and 100 mph at the 8th. Saying one car can do something if I had this and that is just nuts. You never know untill you do it and put it on the track..everything else is just bench racing.
Tim
Last edited by 95Bird; Feb 10, 2004 at 09:42 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,068
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Originally posted by 4drLT4
I called BS on a cam swap ALONE...which is what you implied in your post. Of course the RIGHT cam, higher ratio rockers, replacing potentially tired valve springs, and especially an excellent tune, can now approach something along the lines of what you claimed. Let me also say that replacing plugs, wires, and the opti, along with what appears to be a fuel pressure reg for tuning's sake, is NOT insignificant....and probably helped achieve your gains.
I called BS on a cam swap ALONE...which is what you implied in your post. Of course the RIGHT cam, higher ratio rockers, replacing potentially tired valve springs, and especially an excellent tune, can now approach something along the lines of what you claimed. Let me also say that replacing plugs, wires, and the opti, along with what appears to be a fuel pressure reg for tuning's sake, is NOT insignificant....and probably helped achieve your gains.
The rest of the stuff, wasnt needed, but i did it because it was easy to do at the time and wasnt really expensive. FP = fuel pump, sorry should have been more explicit. About a month after i put in the new cam, my old one bit the dust.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,068
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
My god, just now read the rest of the threads. Grow up. As said above, we were having a very mature conversation until a select few ruined it.
Frank-
My point about your cars weight wasnt a shot at you, just saying a cars weight can easily affect the ET/MPH at the end. That was my only point. My car will remain full weight, its my DD and i like my stereo, rear seats, AC etc
You are right on that your suspension is working damn well to leave as you are, 6 speeds arent the car of choice to drag with.
Ive seen you mention several times in different posts about the lighter a car gets, harder it is to hook it. You have any examples from your car (as you dieted how it affected your 60')? Something I havent thought much since i havent ever had traction woes (except on street tires). Once again, sorry you seemed to take offense to my comment. Your car is just the easiest one to mention when talking about weights since its such a light weight and most people know of it.
If i dropped 600 lbs, would i run a 11.4X, eh prolly not as it sits. I would hope to be trapping in the 119 range however.
Right now my cars launches are clutch limited. The 6k drops were all it could take. Once a bigger clutch goes in, and a torque arm (still on stocker), i hope to be mid 1.5 range, but thats all "hope". Cant say for sure until it happens
97 WS6 T/A Conv-
Wow. Well let me first address the correct 13.1 to 12.75 number. That was in a post in which I was trying to sort out why my car was abnormally slow. I put up the corrections to show what the weather was like, no more no less. The 11.98 timeslip is uncorrected in any form, and if it was corrected it would likely be slower. I have always been completely open about the weather that day (low humidity, cool, high pressure).
The rest of your comments were pretty out of line.
Think what you wish. Anyone who knows me, has seen my car knows what it is, what it ran, and whats done to it. Ive never said anything negative about your setup, and yet you attack me. But since you brought it up, I think many have issues with your cars numbers b/c the dyno numbers compared to the track numbers dont line up in any fashion. You are missing about 8 mph somewhere. Please explain how you only trap 116mph. I dont care if you launched it easy (BTW 1.85 isnt exactly "easy"), cant shift, missed a gear or what. Thats still horrible traps for that power.
Frank-
My point about your cars weight wasnt a shot at you, just saying a cars weight can easily affect the ET/MPH at the end. That was my only point. My car will remain full weight, its my DD and i like my stereo, rear seats, AC etc
You are right on that your suspension is working damn well to leave as you are, 6 speeds arent the car of choice to drag with. Ive seen you mention several times in different posts about the lighter a car gets, harder it is to hook it. You have any examples from your car (as you dieted how it affected your 60')? Something I havent thought much since i havent ever had traction woes (except on street tires). Once again, sorry you seemed to take offense to my comment. Your car is just the easiest one to mention when talking about weights since its such a light weight and most people know of it.
If i dropped 600 lbs, would i run a 11.4X, eh prolly not as it sits. I would hope to be trapping in the 119 range however.
Right now my cars launches are clutch limited. The 6k drops were all it could take. Once a bigger clutch goes in, and a torque arm (still on stocker), i hope to be mid 1.5 range, but thats all "hope". Cant say for sure until it happens
97 WS6 T/A Conv-
Wow. Well let me first address the correct 13.1 to 12.75 number. That was in a post in which I was trying to sort out why my car was abnormally slow. I put up the corrections to show what the weather was like, no more no less. The 11.98 timeslip is uncorrected in any form, and if it was corrected it would likely be slower. I have always been completely open about the weather that day (low humidity, cool, high pressure).
The rest of your comments were pretty out of line.
Originally posted by 97 WS6 T/A Conv
Hahahaha, see you are already adding mods to your "cam swap ONLY claim! Want to add some more, we won't hold it against ya.
I don't care how long you've been here newbie. It was BS before and it's BS now.
Did you know that when people spread their own BS to much they start to believe it? Might want to keep that in mind.
Hahahaha, see you are already adding mods to your "cam swap ONLY claim! Want to add some more, we won't hold it against ya.
I don't care how long you've been here newbie. It was BS before and it's BS now.
Did you know that when people spread their own BS to much they start to believe it? Might want to keep that in mind.
Last edited by atljar; Feb 10, 2004 at 10:35 PM.
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 185
From: VA
Originally posted by atljar
I think many have issues with your cars numbers b/c the dyno numbers compared to the track numbers dont line up in any fashion. You are missing about 8 mph somewhere. Please explain how you only trap 116mph. I dont care if you launched it easy (BTW 1.85 isnt exactly "easy"), cant shift, missed a gear or what. Thats still horrible traps for that power.
I think many have issues with your cars numbers b/c the dyno numbers compared to the track numbers dont line up in any fashion. You are missing about 8 mph somewhere. Please explain how you only trap 116mph. I dont care if you launched it easy (BTW 1.85 isnt exactly "easy"), cant shift, missed a gear or what. Thats still horrible traps for that power.
As for my horrible traps don't know what to tell ya. I'll keep an eye out for that extra 8mph. For me to jump 21 mph from my bolt on best of 104 mph with just a change in H&C with more weight added to the car seems like a stretch but I'm not an expert. One things for sure if I should be trapping 125 mph according to you I can only imagine what I should be trapping with a decent rear, a better gear and dropping about 700 pounds off the race weight and running some slicks and skinnies. That would/could put me near 133 mph on a N/A stock bottom end LT1 no less wouldn't you agree? If not, in your opinion of course, how much would those other mods help me out on top of my 125mph?
Yeah I was out of line there before, my apologies.
Last edited by 97 WS6 T/A Conv; Feb 10, 2004 at 10:57 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,456
From: sarasota, fl
Originally posted by atljar
I think many have issues with your cars numbers b/c the dyno numbers compared to the track numbers dont line up in any fashion.
I think many have issues with your cars numbers b/c the dyno numbers compared to the track numbers dont line up in any fashion.
gearing
weight
shift time
altitude
temperature
blah blah blah........theres a million reasons why track times might not match the power figures..........theres just too many variables to compare.
dynos dont lie.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,068
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Originally posted by 97 WS6 T/A Conv
Well if there are "many" out there they haven't spoken up. I think I know of 3.
As for my horrible traps don't know what to tell ya. I'll keep an eye out for that extra 8mph. For me to jump 21 mph from my bolt on best of 104 mph with just a change in H&C with more weight added to the car seems like a stretch but I'm not an expert. One things for sure if I should be trapping 125 mph according to you I can only imagine what I should be trapping with a decent rear, a better gear and dropping about 700 pounds off the race weight and running some slicks and skinnies. That would/could put me near 133 mph on a N/A stock bottom end LT1 no less wouldn't you agree? If not, in your opinion of course, how much would those other mods help me out on top of my 125mph?
Yeah I was out of line there before, my apologies.
Well if there are "many" out there they haven't spoken up. I think I know of 3.
As for my horrible traps don't know what to tell ya. I'll keep an eye out for that extra 8mph. For me to jump 21 mph from my bolt on best of 104 mph with just a change in H&C with more weight added to the car seems like a stretch but I'm not an expert. One things for sure if I should be trapping 125 mph according to you I can only imagine what I should be trapping with a decent rear, a better gear and dropping about 700 pounds off the race weight and running some slicks and skinnies. That would/could put me near 133 mph on a N/A stock bottom end LT1 no less wouldn't you agree? If not, in your opinion of course, how much would those other mods help me out on top of my 125mph?
Yeah I was out of line there before, my apologies.
IMO, on the slow traps, shrug. Im sure a better gear would suit you, as would a harder launch. The 8 mph number i threw out there isnt a science, but kinda going off what i have seen with other heavier cars. My buddiies LS1 made 41Xrwhp and is trapping 119+ (6 speed). Another buddy 6 speed 396 LT1 made 48X NA and trapped 131+. I did 115+ with 357rwhp. Like i said, i just grabbed 8 mph as a guess, but i would think surely you should be over 120 mph as the car sits (gear/launch not being ideal). Maybe get the other 4 with a good launch and gear.
133mph stock bottom end car, eh i think we all would like to stack numbers like that, think we are all guilty of it (I know i am), but also think we all know its not quite that easy either. Frank called me out on it, so now its my turn. tisk tisk
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,370
From: Germany
i see two different people here...
1rst person wants to get down to 11 seconds in the quarter mile and just enjoys a fast ride, altho street racing is fun, thats what it is.
2nd person wants to get under 10 seconds and has somewhat of a peice of heart at stake when the engines start reving. these guys are extremely competative...
like my brother and I are the two opposites... i donno if he'd hide his info if someone asked, but to him hes willing to put his car on the line just to win, like ive raced him, where i feel half the body roll as his matrix and i cut off becuase ive had 2 vehicles up on 2 wheels a car and my truck and i didnt like it... he will likely flip his matrix to keep up w/ my bird
i wouldnt mind becoming the next 1200 lt1, and if i was anywhere in that area i wouldnt let my secrets out because i would wanna be on top
but if im just about anything less then 600 rwhp i would help people to enjoy a fun ride
sorry for the long post
1rst person wants to get down to 11 seconds in the quarter mile and just enjoys a fast ride, altho street racing is fun, thats what it is.
2nd person wants to get under 10 seconds and has somewhat of a peice of heart at stake when the engines start reving. these guys are extremely competative...
like my brother and I are the two opposites... i donno if he'd hide his info if someone asked, but to him hes willing to put his car on the line just to win, like ive raced him, where i feel half the body roll as his matrix and i cut off becuase ive had 2 vehicles up on 2 wheels a car and my truck and i didnt like it... he will likely flip his matrix to keep up w/ my bird
i wouldnt mind becoming the next 1200 lt1, and if i was anywhere in that area i wouldnt let my secrets out because i would wanna be on top
but if im just about anything less then 600 rwhp i would help people to enjoy a fun ride
sorry for the long post
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,148
From: AZ
97 WS6 T/A Conv
I'm not going to bash on your numbers, but I too would expect another 4 or 5 mph AT LEAST with 450 rwhp. Look at it this way....you only trap 5 mph higher than me with 120 more rwhp. Again, not bashing..just using my car as a comparison.
I'm not going to bash on your numbers, but I too would expect another 4 or 5 mph AT LEAST with 450 rwhp. Look at it this way....you only trap 5 mph higher than me with 120 more rwhp. Again, not bashing..just using my car as a comparison.