Who is Joe Overton ?
02-09-2004, 09:45 AM
#16
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nashville
Posts: 2,262
Originally posted by rskrause
I don't know if Joe is in/going in to business.
I don't know if Joe is in/going in to business.
I dont mind spending the money, i just hate not knowing the specs on the cam
But that's another price you pay for their services.
02-09-2004, 12:00 PM
#17
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,518
Just want to clairify something here....
$260+ for a cast core roller cam, $300+ for a billet core roller cam.
Look around if that's crazy then you are in the wrong hobby, the + on the end because as Rich said if it's a crazy combo then it's going to require more work to get the cam right for your setup. Most guys are not going to stray too far above those numbers, but some will just gotta talk to me about it.
One more part of this, I never think about the cam as it's own entity. A camshaft is one part of a system, lifters, pushrods, rockers, studs, retainers, locks, valves and VALVE SPRINGS are all as important. In fact I would dare say that valve springs are about the most misunderstood area of an engine. Don't quote me on that quote Smokey Yunick on that, yep he said it long ago. We've learned about different materials and processes over the last 50 years, but still those 16 little springs baffel almost anyone.
So it's a valvetrain package. A aggressive or non-aggressive, street or race camshaft don't matter, the rest of the parts need to go with it to keep it working AND making power for a set number of miles before it needs to be overhauled. That's one reason why it's not cheap. I think of it and sell it as a package. That's also why I sell complete motors too because they are the ultimate packge of parts. There is no magic in my cams or my motors, it's just all the parts working in harmony with one another.
BTW I'll design you a camshaft, but you don't get to know the specs until it's paid for. At that point most people realize that the cam is made for them and what it's worth so it's les likely to have the specs shared with others.
Bret
$260+ for a cast core roller cam, $300+ for a billet core roller cam.
Look around if that's crazy then you are in the wrong hobby, the + on the end because as Rich said if it's a crazy combo then it's going to require more work to get the cam right for your setup. Most guys are not going to stray too far above those numbers, but some will just gotta talk to me about it.
One more part of this, I never think about the cam as it's own entity. A camshaft is one part of a system, lifters, pushrods, rockers, studs, retainers, locks, valves and VALVE SPRINGS are all as important. In fact I would dare say that valve springs are about the most misunderstood area of an engine. Don't quote me on that quote Smokey Yunick on that, yep he said it long ago. We've learned about different materials and processes over the last 50 years, but still those 16 little springs baffel almost anyone.
So it's a valvetrain package. A aggressive or non-aggressive, street or race camshaft don't matter, the rest of the parts need to go with it to keep it working AND making power for a set number of miles before it needs to be overhauled. That's one reason why it's not cheap. I think of it and sell it as a package. That's also why I sell complete motors too because they are the ultimate packge of parts. There is no magic in my cams or my motors, it's just all the parts working in harmony with one another.
BTW I'll design you a camshaft, but you don't get to know the specs until it's paid for. At that point most people realize that the cam is made for them and what it's worth so it's les likely to have the specs shared with others.
Bret
02-09-2004, 01:02 PM
#18
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Red Oak Texas
Posts: 1,509
the TRUE custom cams will work like the perdon grinding/selling them says it will. You want it to pull to 6400 RPM and still make good TQ at 2500 RPM, no problem. He obviously can not make one cam that pulld from 1000 RPM to 7500 RPM, etc. but all things being equal, the custom cam will have a broader power band, pull higher, start making power sooner, or whatever as compared to a shelf grind.
Ask anyone that has been to the dyno and they would GLADLY pay someone another $100 or so to get another 10-15 peak HP at the same RPM and make another 10-20 ft lbs of TQ through out the entire RPM range.
Once you chose the right cam, everything else will work better. Once you chose the wrong cam, youy have lost HP and TQ that will never be replaced. No matter what heads and tuning you have, it "could have" always been better.
As far as getting the specs, they will usually come with the cam or be told AFTER payment if the customer wants to know. Regardless if they are 210/214 .510/.510 116 LSA or 255/265 .580/.580 on a 106 or any where in between. The specs are only good to some one that wants to copy it. No matter what the spec card says, if it performs like you wanted, that is all that matters.
If you need the specs for springs, spring pressure, tuning purposes, the cam guy can give you the info you need as far as what parts to buy and what to "help" the tuner get the tune close. If it is a mail order tune, you will probably only get so close with the first try anyway. Scans and log sheets will help tune it closer or a dyno tune, either way, the "EXACT" specs are not 100% necessary here anyway. Once the $$$ is paid, you will probably get the exact specs anyway. These guys are good and make $$$ from doing this so they do not wanna give you the specs to go buy a cam from someone else with "seemingly" the same or similar specs.
NightTrain66
Ask anyone that has been to the dyno and they would GLADLY pay someone another $100 or so to get another 10-15 peak HP at the same RPM and make another 10-20 ft lbs of TQ through out the entire RPM range.
Once you chose the right cam, everything else will work better. Once you chose the wrong cam, youy have lost HP and TQ that will never be replaced. No matter what heads and tuning you have, it "could have" always been better.
As far as getting the specs, they will usually come with the cam or be told AFTER payment if the customer wants to know. Regardless if they are 210/214 .510/.510 116 LSA or 255/265 .580/.580 on a 106 or any where in between. The specs are only good to some one that wants to copy it. No matter what the spec card says, if it performs like you wanted, that is all that matters.
If you need the specs for springs, spring pressure, tuning purposes, the cam guy can give you the info you need as far as what parts to buy and what to "help" the tuner get the tune close. If it is a mail order tune, you will probably only get so close with the first try anyway. Scans and log sheets will help tune it closer or a dyno tune, either way, the "EXACT" specs are not 100% necessary here anyway. Once the $$$ is paid, you will probably get the exact specs anyway. These guys are good and make $$$ from doing this so they do not wanna give you the specs to go buy a cam from someone else with "seemingly" the same or similar specs.
NightTrain66
02-09-2004, 05:12 PM
#19
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 3,068
Originally posted by SStrokerAce
Just want to clairify something here....
$260+ for a cast core roller cam, $300+ for a billet core roller cam.......(continued)
Bret
Just want to clairify something here....
$260+ for a cast core roller cam, $300+ for a billet core roller cam.......(continued)
Bret
My comments on page one werent directed torwards you so hopefully it wasnt read that way. You are always giving out good info on the board.
Back to my original comments, i have a heck of a time trusting ANYONE with my car, even more so i guess when it comes down to something like cam selection. I want to have a say in whats going on. When i picked out my cam, I had talked to several different builders (including big name shops like BES), knowledgable people etc, and ran by some options by them. EVERYONE of them gave some great advice, and didnt want a dime in return. Maybe b/c I have a pretty decent understanding of what XXX cam will act like in a car, where as most people dont and are willing to blindly trust someone.
If you are going to charge me for cam selection, and then not even tell me what it is, nor involve me in the process, thats bogus. Only way i would ever pay for something like that is if you would put in writing "this cam will make more HP/TQ under the curve from XXrpm-XXXrpm than your current cam, without sacrificing drivablility" Then, when i dyno and make less, or it surges all over the place, you refund all my money.
When they promise me that, that will be the day i am willing to pay 350+ for a cam.
My .02
Last edited by atljar; 02-09-2004 at 05:14 PM.
02-09-2004, 06:14 PM
#20
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lafayette IN.
Posts: 719
I went from the GM 847 cam to joe's custom grind cam and i will never go back to an off the shelf cam again.... Joe's cam has no cam surge compared to the 847 and pulls alot harder at lower rpms than than 847 plus gets better MPG.... Get this joes cam is has a lower LSA than the 847.... My car is fun to drive again with the cam joe designed for my setup.... I don't have any #s yet but i will say this the car feels alot stronger than the 847 ....I dynoed the 847 on a mustang dyno and the car made 360rwhp ... I would recomend Joe to anybody that wants to get the most power out of their custom setup ... He is a good person to do buisness with... FWIW he will tell you the specs of the cam after you order it........
02-09-2004, 10:18 PM
#21
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Location: Peachtree City, GA
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Originally posted by 97 WS6 T/A Conv
I myself jumped from a 12.95 @ 109 to a 12.02 at close to 117 with one of his cams and some head work on my not so hot (out of the box) AFR 195 heads. Since then he has put a cam in an LT1 Impala SS that broke his tranny out testing his new combo (Tin Shed ported LT1's and Joe cam) and an L98 3rd gen that ran 11.6 with just a cam swap. There are a few others out there that I don't know all the details on.
I myself jumped from a 12.95 @ 109 to a 12.02 at close to 117 with one of his cams and some head work on my not so hot (out of the box) AFR 195 heads. Since then he has put a cam in an LT1 Impala SS that broke his tranny out testing his new combo (Tin Shed ported LT1's and Joe cam) and an L98 3rd gen that ran 11.6 with just a cam swap. There are a few others out there that I don't know all the details on.
one thing i do not understand...lol how can u run such ****y times with 452 rwhp?
<-----Puts on a flame suit
Last edited by xxsaint69x; 02-09-2004 at 10:21 PM.
02-09-2004, 10:24 PM
#22
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 3,068
Originally posted by xxsaint69x
one thing i do not understand...lol how can u run such ****y times with 452 rwhp?
<-----Puts on a flame suit
one thing i do not understand...lol how can u run such ****y times with 452 rwhp?
<-----Puts on a flame suit
Hows the Imp SS run? Just curious...
Last edited by atljar; 02-09-2004 at 10:26 PM.
02-09-2004, 10:34 PM
#23
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kansas City, Mo
Posts: 114
asdf
I am having my cam custom made by Joe Overton also. I am building a 383 stroker, and the cam he is making for me is $400. I am gladly handing over that money knowing that I am going to have the ONLY cam like it. No one else will have my cam, and it was custom made for me, to match my heads that Lloyd Elliot is doing for me. Thank you!
-Ryan
-Ryan
02-09-2004, 10:41 PM
#24
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THX people.... Well i have all the v train parts as i have the 847 cam right now everthing is the best up top....What is the core and how much....
With this cam if i had one made.... MAKE more power hands down ....i am not doing a cam swap for nothing or just i little here and there.....
i have a good tune in my car right now and my car drives very well .....
what do people think of the 847
who where is another place to get custom cams ...
thx
P.S if this cam makes more power i am ok with specs when paid for...
thx
02-09-2004, 10:43 PM
#25
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lafayette IN.
Posts: 719
Originally posted by xxsaint69x
one thing i do not understand...lol how can u run such ****y times with 452 rwhp?
<-----Puts on a flame suit
one thing i do not understand...lol how can u run such ****y times with 452 rwhp?
<-----Puts on a flame suit
Last edited by LPE Z convt; 02-09-2004 at 10:55 PM.
02-09-2004, 10:45 PM
#26
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lafayette IN.
Posts: 719
Originally posted by Schurters LT1
THX people.... Well i have all the v train parts as i have the 847 cam right now everthing is the best up top....
What is the core and how much....
With this cam if i had one made.... MAKE more power hands down ....i am not doing a cam swap for nothing or just i little here and there.....
i have a good tune in my car right now and my car drives very well .....
what do people think of the 847
who where is another place to get custom cams ...
thx
P.S if this cam makes more power i am ok with specs when paid for...
thx
THX people.... Well i have all the v train parts as i have the 847 cam right now everthing is the best up top....What is the core and how much....
With this cam if i had one made.... MAKE more power hands down ....i am not doing a cam swap for nothing or just i little here and there.....
i have a good tune in my car right now and my car drives very well .....
what do people think of the 847
who where is another place to get custom cams ...
thx
P.S if this cam makes more power i am ok with specs when paid for...
thx
02-09-2004, 10:56 PM
#27
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Location: Jamestown, NY J&P MUscLE
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So lets say that If my car has just headers and exhaust and maybe a mild valve job, and I want to run a CC306 cam. If i had Joe overton make me a custom cam then his cam will make more usable power but my question is that If I change just 1 variable such has adding a set of AFR heads wouldnt that destroy the optimum specs on his cam and the only way to benifit again is get another custom Grinded Cam?
I can see the benefit of a custom cam if you have a unique engine set up that could only benefit from a custom cam but for the majority of lightly modded cars an Of the Shelf Cam like the CC306 well say is more Beneficial Right? Can some one clarify this.
-John
I can see the benefit of a custom cam if you have a unique engine set up that could only benefit from a custom cam but for the majority of lightly modded cars an Of the Shelf Cam like the CC306 well say is more Beneficial Right? Can some one clarify this.
-John
02-09-2004, 11:00 PM
#28
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Originally posted by LPE Z convt
Gary's car is not set up for the track at all.. ****ty 60foot times, 3.73 gears with a 6speed, Launching at low rpms off the line to keep from breaking the stock 10bolt and a heavy *** convertible, just to name a few.... Wonder how he would do with slicks, 12 bolt with 430 gears,and a 6000rpm launch with a 1.6 60foot
Gary's car is not set up for the track at all.. ****ty 60foot times, 3.73 gears with a 6speed, Launching at low rpms off the line to keep from breaking the stock 10bolt and a heavy *** convertible, just to name a few.... Wonder how he would do with slicks, 12 bolt with 430 gears,and a 6000rpm launch with a 1.6 60foot
I wonder if i could run 12.06 with heads.
Show me results, and I'll shut-up. So far, no one has anything to brag about, other than joes own car
02-09-2004, 11:09 PM
#29
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Location: Lafayette IN.
Posts: 719
Originally posted by atljar
I dunno, my buddies 10 bolt, 373, LT4 heads/306 cam UNTUNED went 114 traps on easy launches.
I wonder if i could run 12.06 with heads.
Show me results, and I'll shut-up. So far, no one has anything to brag about, other than joes own car
I dunno, my buddies 10 bolt, 373, LT4 heads/306 cam UNTUNED went 114 traps on easy launches.
I wonder if i could run 12.06 with heads.
Show me results, and I'll shut-up. So far, no one has anything to brag about, other than joes own car
Atljar i had the 847 cam and Ion tuned it and did a great job but the new cam from joe blows the 847 away take that however you want but no#s until spring...... My car made 360rwhp on a mustang dyno with the 847... Thats a little over 400 for the dynojet guys.
02-09-2004, 11:15 PM
#30
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Originally posted by LPE Z convt
Got to wait till spring i live in Indiana and the weather sucks until about May....
Atljar i had the 847 cam and Ion tuned it and did a great job but the new cam from joe blows the 847 away take that however you want but no#s until spring...... My car made 360rwhp on a mustang dyno with the 847... Thats a little over 400 for the dynojet guys.
Got to wait till spring i live in Indiana and the weather sucks until about May....
Atljar i had the 847 cam and Ion tuned it and did a great job but the new cam from joe blows the 847 away take that however you want but no#s until spring...... My car made 360rwhp on a mustang dyno with the 847... Thats a little over 400 for the dynojet guys.