I had the same info.

The CTSv was originally going to have a turbo V6 of around 320 hp. It was then decided that a V8 would have more panache. The Northstar was the first choice....but wouldn't package. That's when they turned to the LS6.

 

That's what I have been saying too. We can't let that Cobra get away, we need to reel it right in. I want a Camaro model that will smoke a Cobra for less, so far it has been done and it should stay that way. All this talk about 500hp Cobras.................I'll believe it when I see it. I just wish GM would step up and offer some forced induction motors, and if that happens.............look out!
GTO should not be the one to take on the Cobra, to me, that is kind of like admitting defeat. It would be nice to have that LS7(or whatever) in a Camaro and smoke the blown Cobra all on motor. That would be a nice kick in the face against the Mustang but that is all up to GM and if they want to surrender that engine to other cars besides the Corvette and GTO(?)

 

The stated goal for Cobra once the 2003 version came out was "Corvette killer". With ultra-macho John Colletti pretty much getting his way I wouldn't bet against it. That said, I'm doubting more and more that any Camaro model would try to top that.

 

According to my list..........

This will rape the 500 hp Cobra and be the top performing car for GM satisfying the "Corvette Rule" if there is one.

These will also take down a 500 hp Cobra for about the same price but with more luxury. Take your choice.

These will be great options for people who want a super performing car but dont want to pay "too much" while still blowing the Mustang GT out of the water.



Cool cars, right price, still competing.


Badass base cars.

This line up should please just about everyone, There is a Z28 making 450 and I can actually see that happening. Who cares if you have to buy a nicer car to beat a 500hp Cobra that isn’t even considering the Camaro competition? If you want a Camaro to beat the new Cobra I’m sure GM’s new performance division or SLP will have an after market just for you.

And I really don’t see the top GTO making 500 hp. I just don’t think Pontiac deserves a car like that. Caddy and the Z06 are the only two I can see making 500 hp.

Oh and I forgot to add this to my list….

07 C6 ZL1 600 hp LS? for $78,000 ¼ mile in 10.80

 

EXACTLY!

What's next.....a 600 hp Saturn?

 

No kidding!

 

That list is actually pretty good.

The Camaro SS will not happen as you say. No Way, No How does GM risk losing the entire market to the Mustang GT over a $5K more expensive car. It sounds great to all us gearheads on here, but the Camaro SS HAS to come in at or lower $25K to get the masses to serious consider it over a Stang. 300+hp 5.3

HOWEVER, the 450hp Z/28 might be a hipo low volume edition to put out. It'll be more around $40K but it's way less risky than a $30K LS2 SS.

Your base C6 is too expensive, more like $45K.

No doubt a 500hp LS7 3000lb Z06 will beat up a 500hp 3500lb Cobra. I've agreed here all along.

Everything else on your list should be handled easily by the Cobra.

The ZL1 will have to go up against the GT. It's only fair

 

Thanks, thought it made sense.

True, but its going to need to have more than 300 hp. Atleast 350 hp. It's going to be hard to bring this type of car in below 30 grand, might happen though. I think the next mustang GT is suppose to cost about this much.

Lets keep our fingers crossed.

Even in 2007 dollars? Base Vettes cost about 45 now. Im thinking they will go up a little in cost.



Yeah they will!

......and take it down!

 

Man, there are alot of people on here with really unrealistic expectations. Everyone was so upset when they killed the 325hp F-bod, and now, nothing less than Cobra beating performance (read: 500+hp) will do. Do me a favor and stop. Jeebus, it aint gonna happen and you know it. If it came back as a 375hp car it would be lightyears ahead of the 4th Gen in so many ways. Of course, it wouldnt be good enough for the "true enthusiasts".

The article that guionM wrote some time ago about the enthusiasts helping to kill the F-bod makes more sence everyday.

What if they just fired up the old plant and started producing 2004 Camaros in the same image as the last Gen. 325-330hp, ancient chassis, ect. It would take down the GT just fine. Lots of people would be happy. But if they put it on a new cutting edge chassis, gave it 50-75 more hp, a new fresh exterior, fabulous new interior, and made about the same as it used to....Whoa!! Ive got a real problem with this. Its not going to beat a car that is faster than the VIPER has ever been until recently.

Get real. Open your brain. Stop being so selfish and unrealistic.

Youd better, or else you WILL be disappointed.

 

Figure Mustang GT will come in at mid to high 20's. Fully loaded, approaching 30K. ( More for convertible). There is no way Camaro will match ALL Mustang models....model for model. If we see a 500 hp Mustang, it's competition will be a Z06. It makes no sense to slot a Camaro or GTO in that segment if Corvette is there.

Like you said, we can forget about 300 hp. One Camaro will need around 350 hp,maybe even alittle less, and one will need around 400hp. These will bracket the remaining Mustang V8 models hp (300, 350,400) most effectively....and the Chevy motors to do this will already be developed, both 6.0L.

The 350 hp Camaro needs to come in...well equipped...at comfortably under $30K.

 

It seems to me that the V8 motor going against the GT will be the 6.0 motor from the base Vette making a little over 400 hp. So it stands to reason that this will be in the Camaro, "detuned" of course but I think the rating will be somewhere near 375. If this model can be placed at the same price as the GT, it will be a killing, like the 4th gens all over again. I think this scenario is very possible. You can forget about a Camaro SS with a 5.3, I'm sure you wish that would happen so that car would be the top Camaro and only compete with the GT but c'mon.

There was some talk about two V8 models but I think they were both 6.0. Can anyone comment on this? Maybe the "base" 6.0 will have around 360-375 and the top V8 will have 400+.................maybe, hopefully a little more than the base Vette, say 420-430. I think those would handle the Mustangs nicely.

 

.... so the whole 3rd Gen Camaro should never have happened????




.... hmmm... me thinks me opened can of worms... ignore that last statement.

 

Well, the 5.7's days are numbered. A while ago there was a link here...with some info from a GM presentation (they looked like slides) describing future engines.

They described a high perf 6.0 ( which I assumed to be an LS2), and a standard 6.0.

In the Corvette, the LS2 should have over 400hp.....maybe 420.
Figure this may be detuned...or at least "derated" as a top Camaro powerplant.....375-400 hp.

The standard 6.0L should be a direct replacement for the LS1. Figure 320-350 hp.

Throw in a 230-245 hp 3.9 V6....and there is your engine line up.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Darth Xed
[B].... so the whole 3rd Gen Camaro should never have happened????




89 Turbo TA... enuff said

 

Let me summerize an explaination to what is quickly becoming a dilema for a few of us here.

It's not that Camaro is moving downstream in performance, it's that the Cobra is leapfrogging upstream, into Corvette's performance territory, and will likely step into Z06 territory within a few years, if not sooner.

Though there is NO "Corvette" rule at General Motors itself restricting other divisions, there IS one within Chevrolet to keep it's lineup in perspective.

Chevrolet simply will not make a Camaro that's quicker than the Corvette, which by association means that Camaro will not be competing with the Cobra's Corvette level performance.

However, as I mentioned, there is no "Corvette Rule" restricting other divisions, and often in the past (especially Pontiac) there have been Corvette performance level cars made. GTO is Pontiac's flagship car the way Corvette is at Chevrolet.

This means there is no restriction in GTO pursuing Cobra's performance levels the way there is at Chevrolet regarding the Camaro. If Chevrolet didn't have the Corvette, things would be different. If the Cobra kept itself below Corvette in performance, again things would be different.

Ford has taken the Cobra to a place where the ChevroletCamaro can't go, but Pontiac's GTO can, and that's what's going to happen. Remember, I said this when in a couple of years, after the "Super Cobra" comes out the Z06 powerplant ends up in a "Super GTO".

I hope this better puts things in perspective.