[QUOTE]Originally posted by TA76
[B]
Well.. I did say Camaro...

Even if you throw in the 89 Turbo T/A ... what about 1982-1988, and 1990-1992?

 

guion,
You've made several great points thru-out this thread.

Unfortuneately, some people are so closed minded, they cannot see logic, reason, and common sense.

 

I'm not missing anything here. My point is this... why limit the Corvette's performance? Granted Ford is not going to be selling as many GT's as Chevrolet will selling Corvettes, or even Z06's for that matter. However by targetting the Ford GT as the Z06's competition, Chevrolet wins by virtue of a "bang-for-the-buck" advantage. By simply saying Ford has pushed the Cobra into the realm of the Z06, and assuming Chevrolet is going to accept that and stay stagnant, is admitting defeat IMO. Chevrolet simply needs to push the performance envelope even further with the Corvette.

Furthermore, several people are comparing HP numbers across models, makes, etc as gospel and as if that's the only factor in performance. Even if Ford pushes 500HP with a supercharged version of the Cobra; there's no guarrantee that it will out perform (or perform equally as) a 500HP Ford GT. Needless to say, a 450HP Corvette could still outperform a 500HP Cobra. Now, what's not to say that a 5th Gen Camaro can't be built that fits all the criteria? If everything is done correctly why can't a new Camaro fit within the "Corvette" rule (i.e. lower HP "rating" than Corvette) yet still perform on par with GTO and Cobra? Afterall, the car doesn't even exist yet for the most part so shape (aerodynamics), weight, wheelbase, and other contributing factors are not yet set in stone. GM basically has a blank slate to work with and can theoretically make this the best Camaro ever... if they want to.

That's the big question. Is GM jumping in full bore or half-assed? Only time will tell.

 

Your not understanding. The point is, if everything that has been said is true, NO CAMARO will be able to compete with the MUSTANG Cobra, is that fine for you? I have a real problem with that. If I want a faster car, I will have to buy something else to compete. That is Mustang wins, Camaro looses and I sure as hell do not want that. I don't like the argument for "oh well, just add mods". That is weak and I have never liked that point of view. For some it's fine, for me it is not. If this is the case, I will just have to save up and buy a new C6 or maybe a used one. I think the Camaro looses more than you think if it can not compete with the top Mustang.

 

Umm ok, but the concept of Cobra "going after Corvette" fully implies that Cobra isn't going to stay stagnant either. If Corvette and Cobra are going to be playing a cat-and-mouse game of horsepower, do you really think that Camaro will be jumping into the same fray? Would it even make sense for that to happen?

 

I have no idea why this perspective is accepted at all.

GM will use the Camaro to kick the Cobra's a$$. End of story.

Rustangs are not, have never been, and never will be in the same class as a Corvette. That's what Camaros are for.

 

[Applause] [/Applause]

 

Until the Cobra has a big brother with which to complete with the Corvette, they are going to build Mustangs to go after it. The Camaro loses because it has a faster car in it's division.

There is no way the Camaro will have the performance of the Vette. Thus if the Cobra is competing with the Vette, the Camaro will not compete with it.

Personally I don't see how the Stang can be considered as winning the performance war with the Camaro, when the Cobra costs 1 and a half times the cost of a Camaro. If it costs as much as a Vette, has similar performance to a Vette, then it competes with the Vette, not the Camaro. Bang for the buck.

 

OK...let me add one thing...

Corvette is more that horsepower! Much more!

Corvette is the whole package. It wins comparisons with cars twice it's price, not becuase it has a fastest top speed or 0-60 or slalom. It does it because it exceeds in all performance catagories and as a whole trumps the competition.

The 2003 Cobra is a Horsepower machine! I'm sure it handles well too, but nothing on par with '03 Vete. For the next Cobra....well, if it's more of the same theme, then bring it!

GuionM's comments make sense to me....but for these reasons I would not rule out a limited edition Camaro with an excess of power. This allows Corvette to rule all around performance (ZL1 still beats all) while having a hi-po Camaro to beat the Cobra's bragging rights to HP and 1/4 mile times.

That said, it's gonna be pricey and hard to get. I'm thinking that a lot of you complaining about the lack of such a car would be hard pressed to afford it. And if it doesn't happen, and you can afford more...by all means go out and get it!

 

If the Cobra is in Corvette territory, it would take a Camaro with Covette power to compete with the Cobra.

Why would GM have two cars in the same performance realm?

Isn't this the needless product overlap that so many people said that GM had while discussing the existence of Camaro AND Firebird?

Sure, when it's the Camaro and Firebird, you guys say, "just ax the 'Bird. It really won't be missed. And besides, 'Bird lovers will just buy a Camaro anyways".

But now when faced with the prospect of the Camaro not being the fastest thing built by GM, you guys have a fit.

By your reasoning, if the Camaro is just not gonna cut it for you, just buy a GTO or Corvette. Problem solved.

I understand the emotions behind this thread. You want the Camaro to be top dog.

I just don't think it's going to happen. GM is trying to get away from product overlap.

And I don't think GM will build a Camaro that will beat the top Mustang if that Mustang's performance is on par with the Corvette.

And that "price be damned" comment.
Is that saying, "I'd be willing to pay ANYTHING for a Camaro that will beat all Mustangs" or it saying "GM needs to build a Camaro that will beat all Mustangs and take a loss on them all"?

 

Pacer, even if Ford releases a 500 hp Mustang.....you think that GM will respond with a Camaro to compete with it?

 

Yes.

 

 

You know something we dont know?

 

1) There's no emotion to it. Ford cannot build a 500hp pony car for the same price GM can. Can't. Period.

2) Camaro can have EXACTLY identical motor selections as Corvette and still leave the Corvette as the performance benchmark. Camaros will ALWAYS be heavier. They will ALWAYS be larger. They will ALWAYS sacrifice some technology in the interest of keeping cost down. There ya have it.

3) Common powertrains saves GM money in the long run. Commonizing GTO, Camaro, Corvette, CTSv and the trucks has saved tons of money. Pay careful attention to that fact. It tells you where GM is going... watch the trucks to see what the passenger cars do.