If there were a 400hp mass produced Camaro, it would be a significant upgrade from what we are all used to with the 4th Gen. A new chassis, less weight, and a high quality interior coupled with that power and you wont hear me complain. GTO's might be faster, but my car's never stay stock very long.

 

The GTO is going to be Pontiac's elite sports car. It's the car that is supposed to be leading the Pontiac pack in performance. It is Pontiac's best sports car in terms of performance and handling.

The Camaro is the sports car for the masses. Designed to be affordable, while maintaining good performance numbers, and helping sponsor a large aftermarket for it. Power and handling should be good, but not comparable to the Vette, which is Chevrolet's premier performance car.

That's how I understand the two vehicles, so I can see how the GTO would get more power than the Camaro. And I also think you're going to pay for it too.

 

Don't forget, that with the exception of the Cobra.....the other Mustang variants are still the ones to beat for the new Camaro......and it will

 

You worry too much, amigo. Camaro isn't moving down any performance chain unless you have the money for a Cadillac, then you might look at it that way.

I think you have things backward. If the cheaper Camaro is faster, why would anyone into performance buy a GTO? If prices are this close, the answer is they won't. And that's how Pontiac's traditionally have been.

For a little more money you get a little more performance. Camaro will be priced with & outrunning Mustangs, GTO will be priced with & outrunning Cobras.

I think the view of Camaro going after "bottom feeders" is being extremely melodramatic. What bottom feeders can even keep up with the current Mustang, let alone a quicker Z28?

The next Camaro will be very very quick. The GTO will be a little bit quicker. GTO will cost more than the Camaro. No one's name is being "cheapened", no one's position is being moved "down the chain", no one's name is being "devalued".

Again, it's just the 4th gen f-body twisted alot of people's view as to Chevy's traditional position. Throughout the 70s, Trans Ams were faster, in the 80s they had higher top speeds (the 1989 Turbo TA would flatten pretty much every production Z28 ever made, save perhaps the post 2000 LS1s), and Firebirds have almost always had more model choices.

Camaro survived just fine all those years. Relax!

 

I am exaggerating things a little to make a point. First of all top speed means nothing. The 93'-97' Firebirds had about a 2mpg advantage over the Camaro because of a little better aerodynamics but no one really cares. The 70's TA's are different yes but since then the f-bodies have been the same, perfomance wise.

It just seems to me that now the GTO will be the car to have and the Camaro will now be in it's shadow. The GTO will be more expensive yes, but it will be faster and people will pay that difference to be faster. IT relates to what happened to the Z28 once the SS was around. The SS is barely faster but carries a price premium and people gladly paid for that and the SS was the car to have while the Z28 was forgotten and lowered to second class status. No one really remembered or cared that the Z28 was the performance bargain. The general public viewed the SS as the top model and saw it as greatly superior over the Z28 in performance. Then if you bought a Z28, people would say "why didn't you buy an SS" or "you should have bought an SS". I have seen this or heard this so many times. This is why many people who favor the Z28 got a little upset that the SS moved to the top model because the Z28 lost its appeal and status. This is what I fear will happen to the Camaro. It si great that it is comming back, but maybe some of it's glory will be lost in the name of the GTO.

 

IMHO, what happened to the Z28 was that Chevrolet turned it into a "Mustang LX 5.0" because they were aiming to kill off the option when Camaro returned. The SS could be sold for more money, and Chevy got a bigger profit margin charging 8-9 grand for just over a grand worth of parts and an SS name.

Younger new Camaro buyers went for the V6 with ground effects and stereo upgrades, even though the high performance Z28 was cheaper. The bulk of other buyers if they went for performance, went for the SS or loaded Z28s because people who tend to buy these type of cars new, go loaded. The base Z28 at $23,000 was the performance deal & the steal of the century. They could have gone for a $35,000+ Firehawk (which were clearly quicker than Z28s or SSs), but they didn't.

I think you overestimate performance in a buying decision, and underestimating Camaro has always been the volume mover. You pointed out that noone cares about a 2mph top speed advantage, but it seems you feel that everyone will crawl over each other to get a more expensive car that's likely to be within half a second to 60 mph, and probably within a second or 2 in the quarter mile. Again, I think considerations are being missed.

Why is Mustang still here & in production at the expense of Camaro & Firebird if performance is extremely important in sales?

Discount the female & rental car factors here, & focus on male buyers only. Mustang GTs still massively outsold Z28s by humiliating margins to male buyers for reasons that went beyond "just" being the fastest car. It was a good package, it was good price for the performance, it had a "common man" reputation, and it was an overall great value.

Camaro typically represents the same thing, but in the 4th gen the focus was on performance above all else.

GTO is a fully loaded GT. It's only option is the manual transmission. It's also Pontiac's flagship car, something the Camaro isn't. Camaro is sold in V6's as well as V8s. It has a great many options. It's market will be younger than the GTO, Camaro's market will be less "well off" as GTO's will be, and Camaro buyers will tend to "massage" their cars more than GTO buyers will. Again, look at the difference between Mustang GT buyers and those that spring for the Cobra.

Different demographics.

 

So what you're saying is, if I want to remain "brand-loyal" and still have Cobra-like performance, I'll have to buy a Corvette?

Why can't GM give us what we really want? A limited production street legal Cobra slaying "CAMARO"... money being no object???

 

Difference in company concept and design?

Ford doesn't have very many brands, and thus, not many models. It has the Mustang, the Cobra, the Thunderbird, soon the new GT, and the Lightning. Does any of it's other brands have anything performance related?

GM will have Chevrolet with a Camaro, as well as a supercharged Impala and Supercharged Monte Carlo, SSR, and of course the Corvette. Pontiac will have the Grand Prix GTP, something based off the Solstice concept, and of course the GTO. Not to mention the rumors flying around about the performance models of the upcoming G6. Cadillac has it's own performance model now, and even Saturn may be getting into the performance tuner market with that Ion thing. Olds and Buick are the only two divisions lacking a performance type vehicle, and that's because that type of car doesn't really fit under their current direction (not that both divisions haven't had some good cars in the past, like the Grand National and 442).

GM doesn't need to build a Camaro to compete with the Cobra. They have other cars that can do that. The Camaro has always been the poor mans Vette. It's a reasonably priced car, with not a lot of options, that gets a high performance motor for it's current era shoe horned into it.

 

The good thing about the Camaro is that it can run the spectrum of the slower V6 car to the top V8 that is always at the top of performance for the time. I think in relation to the Mustang, the reason it outsold the Camaro even in the face of inferior performance has to do with the a more tame day to day experience along with an image thing. Now if you take away the performance edge of the Camaro, what does it have? What will be the main tag line for the Camaro and it's claim to fame? What would be the reason to buy a Camaro over a GTO, Solstice, or another rwd performance car that is out at the time. Is it going to be price? Styling? Bang for the buck? Also, if it can't compete against the Mustang then there is no point.

You don't think that when the new Camaro and GTO is introduced that the GTO, with it's superior performance, will take most of the glory once the fact that the "Camaro is back" has worn off? I guess we will just have to see but if things are as i think they are, I will have to save for a used Vette when I get my new car.

 

You're missing my point. GM may not need to build a Camaro to compete with Cobra. However I want a Camaro that competes with Cobra, and I would buy a Camaro that competes with Cobra, even if it was a high dollar, limited production model much like the Z06 is for the Corvette.

If that's how it plays out, (GTO faster than Camaro) I have three options as I see it. (a) Buy a Corvette instead; (b) Buy a Camaro SS and be happy that its almost as fast as Cobra and GTO; or (c) Buy a Camaro SS and hope it doesn't take long for the aftermarket industry to produce performance improvements that are CARB legal and allow me to keep up/pass Cobra and GTO in performance.

 

The new Mustang GT is going to sticker around $25K and have 300hp(probably underrated at 270 RWHP). The new Camaro SS, (there will be no Z/28 model) will probably have to max out on a 5.3 making similar power to compete pricewise.

There's no way the Camaro is following the Mustang Cobra up to the 500+ HP level it's going to. So basically Ford has got GM seriously stretched over the canyon on this one. It can't allow a Camaro to match up to the '06 Cobra because the '06 Cobra is going to be trouncing GTOs and base C6s.

Sorry but that's the way it is. Ford's only got one performance car and GM's got 3, and they have their pecking order.

So there you have it. The old rivalry is back on!
Ford Mustang GT vs Chevy Camaro SS.
300+hp vs 300+hp
All for under $30K even 2007.

 

I honestly don’t know how some of you are already bitching. Damn we finally get an actual hint that holds truth that a Camaro is on the way…..and people find something to bitch about. Damn if think your car is too slow, slap on a blower and crying. Who cares if the GTO runs a few tens faster and may be rated 40 hp more or something? I for one am relieved and damn happy, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, “make mine an orange convertible with a 6 speed and a rumbly V8.”

 

Ok if i buy a new camaro it must kill the cobra's screw pecking orders i am not going to have a stang beat me no offense meant

 

Well I guess you have everything figured out. I'm glad you know that there will be no Z28 model, where did you hear this? Also, do you actually think that the SS will have a 5.3? 300 hp for the SS, what are you thinking? Do you actaully think the Camaro will come back in 07' with less to equal hp than it had years earlier.................no. Sorry to tell you but the Mustang GT will once again get it's doors blown off by the comparable Camaro model. Don't think that since there has been talk recently about the GTO being faster than the Camaro let you think that they both won't blow Mustangs out of the water. Why don't you wait to see what the Cobra will have before you start talking like it will be taking over the world. I think GM has what it takes to put the Cobra in its rightful place. Remember, the closer the Cobra gets to the Corvette in price, the harder it is going to be to justify buying a Mustang over a Corvette.

 

It is because I am such a HUGE Camaro fan that I care as much to remark on the future car. It seems to me that the really big fans are the ones that DO scrutinize every little thing because they care that much and want to see things done right and be proud to own the car that they do. I'm not going to be like, "oh well, at least they are bringing it back, who cares what it is like as long as they have a Camaro".