It goes WAY beyond cars.
The automotive portion of the trade deficit we run with Asian nations is just a small peice of the pie.

I personally hit the Asian companies (all of them - not just car companies) harder because they are on the "roll" right now and stand the best chances of becoming the world's economic superpower(s), thereby dictating economic policy to everyone else they chose to trade with. THAT is risky business IMO.

I am not even concerned about the trade with countries like Germany because they are under the same stress and pressure that we are here in the USA... they have similar workplace safety, environmental regulations, and labor laws... they practice open and free trade with us in many markets... and they are nowhere near the 1.5-billion population of China alone, which tells me they will likely never become economic or military superpowers that will threaten world peace in order to feed their own people.

Toyota is MUCH bigger than BMW, Volkswagen, MB, and other European marques, which makes them more dangerous and worthy of my attention.
My sig has not changed since I joined - and there is a reason for that.
Honda, Nissan, Mitsu and others just fit into the same sack because they are based in the same region.

HUGE differences involved between Asian makers and European ones, don't you agree? Not to mention that 9 out of 10 things I pick-up in Wal-Mart are "Made in China"... not "Made in Germany".

Again, in a nice way, I ask that people in this forum remove their blinders, take a few steps back, and look at the big picture, instead of getting stuck on a single point (like the sale of a specific car), or how their own little world looks.

 

Hey Proud Pony,

kinda like I said on page 8???
I wrote and to sum it up:

I get what your saying, I just wish some others would. Like you said just step back and see whats going on. Pages and pages of words of how we are wrong is simple to just step back and see. If I can see it Proud can see it why is it so hard for anyone else to see it? Were focusing on the cars since this is a auto website and one of the larger industries in this makeup of the global economy.Sure its not helping us that we are handing over markets to asian companies like it does not matter, but reality it does.It does go far beyond that..Something is wrong here and it is not me. You can buy anything you want or drive anything you want, work for anyone you want. That is what makes the U.S. what it is. But to come in here and say it doesnt amount to a hill of beans. Well, it does! And not seeing it is hurting this country more than anyone thinks. The funny thing is I love the culture of Japan and maybee I am taking a little of that and putting it to how I feel about the U.S.. The Japanses do everything for Japan. Well maybee I try and do what is right for my country any way I can.
I think this needs to be said again just to get the point across since some people are just ignorant to the fact:

 

Well, first, as a side note, it makes absolutely no sense to group the automotive superpowers in Japan with the Chinese economy. They are entirely separate entities on the global market, whether or not they're all from the Asian region or look similar to you.

And the reason 9 out of 10 things you see at walmart are made in China, is because people in China are willing to work for 50 cents an hour in horrible conditions to make cheap disposable crap for us Americans. Nobody in America or Germany is willing to do that. So what is your solution? Would you suggest we force, whether by law or by public awareness that we start making all of the cheap crap here in the states again, even if it means we have to start letting mexicans in from across the border because nobody is willing to work for a dollar an hour?

Or do you suggest we start building stuff over here for whatever the going rate is for a factory worker? 12 bucks an hour maybe? And that's not including managerial overhead.... guess what's going to happen when we do that? Product prices will skyrocket, and not only will we have to isolate our country from incoming cheap foreign goods, but we won't be able to compete on a global scale in any other country - in other words nobody will want expensive exported american crap when they can get it for cheap from China.


OR we could just accept the fact that we are not longer an industrial economy - we are moving into the economic age of media, information, ideas, research, and advanced business management. But then again, I already said all of this and more in the long-*** post I made earlier, which I'm guessing you didn't bother to read or reply to.

I don't have blinders on - I know the situation is a bit nerve-wracking and uncomfortable - even dangerous for our economy, however there is no alternative solution, even if you could fly up in the sky like superman and direct our entire free country to stop buying chinese products and start making all the small crap here again.
IT WOULD HURT US MORE THAN IT WOULD HELP US

At least with our current economic setup we are able to offer products and services to the rest of the world that China can't, at any price.

 

But the idea is I think not to tie our hands behind our backs. Or let things go for the cheap way out like we are doing now. I think Proud Pony would agree that isolationism would not be the best as I think also, and also I think hes grouping Asia as a whole to show where the dominant power will be in the comming years, kinda line grouping all of Europe and not one country.
The idea is to transition to this global economy with somthing to fall back on if it goes wrong. Not **** it all away for the sake of saving a few bucks. The fall back is there in case the intentions of say China are in the next 20 years turing hostle to the rest of the world. Maybee it wont and we intergrate into thie great world economy. But thats a 50/50 shot at this as China is a 3rd world nation with the baby huey complex, It really is growing faster than it knows how or what to do with itself. That is scary.

 

I like this statement,

 

and one of the big problems they have dug themselves..It is a whole lot of little things that make this a huge problem. that being one of the major ones.

 

So you're telling me that Chrysler's R&D team went to sleep while the 300 line was being conceived... because the Germans did all the work for Chrysler?

Where do I find a job like that?

 

Anyone who thinks that the LX platform was developed in this fashion doesn't know jack sh*t. A huge effort was made by the folks in Auburn Hills and Brampton, and anyone who says otherwise was not involved in the project, and probably doesn't understand the least about the automotive development process.

Anyways, getting somewhat back on-topic to address the whole Japan-vs-China thing - I personally worry far more about China. First and foremost, I dislike buying product that's built by people who aren't able to maintain the standard of living I'd like for myself. The folks that built my Nikon camera and Kubota tractor likely enjoy a reasonable-length work week, healthy insurance, retirement benefits, and so on. The people that are employed to build products from low-cost nations don't fair so well. I think that's an important distinction to make. Second, China is still a Communist dictatorship, with a long history of appalling human-rights abuses. I don't understand how we can go to war with some countries for the sake of "democracy", and yet maintain Most Favorable Nation trade status with a country that jails or kills its citizens for speaking out. Third, our relationship with Japan is far better than that with which we maintain with China. I don't think the money I sent to Korea or Japan is likely going to be used to build weapons that will be used against US soldiers; I'm not so sure that's the case with China.

 

Everybody's right (to a certain extent) in this thread.. Whether you buy something because you want to help your country, or buying because you actually find the product useful eventhough its imported, in the end, its all up to the individual. Its your hard earned money you're spending. You have the freedom to choose. Do not let anybody tell you otherwise.

Happy new year everyone! Lets hope this year would bring prosperity to every nation around the world.

 

Get this straight - Japan is the ONLY nation in the history of the USA to EVER make a concerted attack on our domestic soil... EVER.
Why did they do it? To be friendly? To bring us their cultural benefits? To share their way of life with us?
HELL NO! They wanted to gain control over the most powerful nation in the world - period. It was in their breeding and personas... it's their culture. They crave power, and fight to get it.
You think China would not do the same if given a chance?

Asian populations have a radically different culture than Westerners do. Japan, China, Malaysian, Phillipino, Vietnamese, Korean... they ALL share a similar culture, which is one of pride, dignity, and domination. Historically, there has been far more dynasties, wars, and power struggles in Asia than any other part of the world... and I personally believe they don't know anything else. North v South Vietnam... North v South Korea... China v Taiwan... Japan v China... Honestly, WHO in Asia is not currently at odds with someone else?

What has changed in the last 5 decades (versus the last 5000 years) is that they can now battle and beat us (the USA) with PENCILS instead of guns - especially China, but Japan too. What better revenge for Japan's WWII surrender than to end up "owning" the USA through financial prowess and our own domestic "spending stupidity".
We're giving them the reins one little dollar at a time.

You say it makes no sense to group Asian nations categorically - I challenge your statement. Think culturally.


In fact - YES, I do propose that we build stuff here instead of there.

You see, I have been a part of both sides of the NAFTA movement of the 1990's.
I moved SIMM memory module production from Greensboro, NC to Hermosillo, Mexico because it was labor intensive, and we were not making any money on the product due to price erosion and lifecycle. The move allowed us to keep making the product and keep customers that were buying other product from us, but return to making a profit on it.
NEXT UP, I was to move the brand new DIMM module assembly line from Greensboro to Hermosillo too. THIS WAS WRONG. DIMM was brand new, we were using automatic machines to produce, and it was VERY profitable even in Greensboro. As the product Engineer, I had access to all the numbers to verify this. Some 35 people were let go, and the machines moved to Mexico simply for MORE profit (a.k.a. GREED in my book). The move did not result in any price drop... the extra money saved went straight to the bottom line - at the expense of 35 families that needed that income to put food on the table, shoes on the feet, kids through school, etc.

So in my experience, if it CAN be made in the USA profitably - DO IT!!!
It's the greedy execs that are moving profitable US operations offshore just to grab that much more profit in the name of "returns to the shareholders" that pizz me off, and they are undermining our economy by doing it IMO.
Know what, I AM A SHAREHOLDER TOO, AND I WORK IN THE D@MN PLANT YOU WERE CLOSING!!! I think it's that big exec bonus that they are REALLY after, and to heck with whatever the fallout may be - as long as they walk away with their $10-million bonus they don't care!

Bottom line, it IS possible to produce here in the USA. Not everything has to go offshore. If you knew what kind of returns were being raked in on some of the sh1+ being made offshore, youd be SHOCKED.

To bend over and accept that we are no longer an industrial economy scares the hell out of me. I have explained before how manufacturiong converts natural resources into wealth. To forego the industrial process means that you are going to forego the process that creates the wealth... IMO, you have given up... lost... game over.
Just sit and wait for your next ruler to take power and tell you how to live.

And yes, I read your post BTW. Just chose not to post a reply. I can't reply to every post I read, especially when I am on vacation and trying to stay OFF my computer for a while!

At least you acknowledge the situation exists, and is potentially VERY dangerous for the way of life as we know it today.
Now, start DOING something about it.

PS - as Caps said, I am not promoting 100% domestication of all production and consumption. We need and should seek trade with others, but ethical rules should apply and be followed, and so should moral finacial responsibility.
Trading with a country is one thing, taking it so far that you are essentially handing them the reins to control YOUR economy and livlihood is foolish.

 

Except for the bit where the British burned large sections of Washington DC...

 

I think the funniest part of all this is that Mr. Nashville waxes poetic about all the wonderful jobs Nissan and Kia are adding...and yet, those jobs offset the 50,000 some-odd hourly jobs GM and Ford are shedding by the end of next year? Not to mention the white collar workers that continue to be cut?

Indeed, thank god for the likes of Kia and Nissan...where would the American workforce be without them??

Keep buying your foreign cars, guys...and thinking that it really doesn't make a difference.

 

How LONG ago was that? WTF? How much LONGER ago was that than WWII? And from what I remember, that was in retaliation for US leaving the soverignty of THEM. WTF did we ever do to the Japanese?

Proud, why do we even bother????

 

Jeezus this post turned into total crap with the last few posts.

 

We weren't a sovereign nation at the time we were trying to separate from British rule... not yet!