Ahh Ok, thanks for the correction.

 

 

Have we really brain washed ourselves into this thinking? Some of the comments in the blog are exactly how many Americans perceive the automotive landscape. We really are lost at sea.....

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/12/28/i...jority-of-cal/

 

What's funny is there are a couple of prominent members that are known for arguing 'pro american brand' in these arguements in this forum, yet hesitate to mention that they're really only anti-japanese, and think that buying from german-owned brands is acceptible, even when they're made in germany.

This was let slip a couple of times and I've tried to ask why they see a difference, and they've expertly danced around the question and moved on to preach against buying japanese cars.

Sometimes I wonder if everyone in this forum is really concerned for the american economy or if they moreso just dislike japan and the people that live there.

 

I remember one BMW post that..................

 

I am just so, so sorry that my little quip so offended your sensibilities that you felt it necessary to lower yourself and grace us all with two whole posts to "call" me on it!

I’m also very, very sure that SCNGENNFTHGEN is pleased that you are so offended on his behalf...and no doubt we are all thankful that you are here to keep us in line!

 

bull****. the entire 300/charger line is made of OLD mercedes designs, as well as the crossfire. sure they may have v8s but that hardly makes the car.

 

How many people would do ANYTHING if it directly affected them negatively (smoking and drinking excluded of course)?

The better question is, why is it that this has to be a zero sum game? Why is it that for GM or Ford to “win” they (in the minds of many of you) have to do so by destroying their “foreign” competition?

Why is it that one has to be “against the American auto industry” just because they acknowledge the very real and very substantial benefits of ALL the industry in this country that employs people and manufacture here?

If anyone is taking food out of the mouths of employees of Ford/GM it is those executives who have refused for years to do what is necessary to be competitive…while they were raking in billions from the sale of trucks and SUVs, rather than spending it to make their tired, inefficient plants efficient and productive, they spent it to line their own pockets and the pockets of the unions.

While Toyota and Nissan and Honda and others were building modern, efficient, flexible manufacturing plants and building good CARS that people wanted; GM and Ford kept plodding along as if it were still 1960…keeping workforces of tens of thousands of employees that were (or should have been) no longer needed…actually paying people NOT TO WORK!!! How totally screwed up is that???????

Apparently you seem to think that everyone should buy “American” (meaning it carries a GM or Ford badge regardless of where it was actually made) even if the vehicle isn’t as safe, even if it isn’t as reliable, even if it doesn’t fill the need of the person buying it and even if it costs more…apparently we should all do this to subsidize the “American” auto industry and its bad decisions…pay now or pay latter in more Government assistance is that your argument?

Without the foreign competition many of you so blindly hate the great cars you are all so proud of today would not exist.

GM and Ford are paying the price today for not doing what they should have done 20/30 years ago…their executives would like everyone to think it is unfair, foreign competition but they need only to look in a mirror to see the real problem.

Oh and by the way, when people get “laid off”, whether it’s from GM or any other company, I expect them to go get a JOB not just get on the Government gravy train.

 

Absolutely dead on.

I wonder how many people here who so hate Japanese cars even know how there came to be a Japanese auto industry in the first place? Very few I suspect!

 

I work in the auto industry. I've purchased "foreign" cars. So, er, I'd say that your statement isn't necessarily correct.

You see, many Americans are employed in the manufacture of components. Certain OEMs have very good reputations among suppliers for building long-term, profitable relationships - the type that allow strong capital investment, solid wages, etc. Other auto manufacturers are not nearly as concerned with the sustanability of their supply base - they're OK saving a dollar this year, even if it means that a long-trusted supplier goes under next year.

Now, as an employee in the auto industry, I feel it's healthier if we have more of the first type of auto manufacturer - it's better for everyone in the industry, and it's certainly good right on down to the guy on the shop floor.

 

Not me Threxx. I love the culture and the history of Japan. So its not me in that list, I have been studying the culture for 15 years.
Two things I can say about Japan and the U.S.
The U.S. yes has lost its "pride" They do not care who what where or when it was made and they will buy it. Made in china is more and more on our shelves than anything made elsewhere, why?? People dont care. That out of sight out of mind mentality that if they cannot see it it does not hurt them. This goes from the bottom to the top as far as responsibilities to running this country. Basically from the blue collar person to the goverment that runs this country. Its something we have lost along the way, become complacement and still its okay and it doesent matter to many. This will be maybee not our downfall as a great place to live but it may be 20-30 years from now when we get picked apart till there is no real americana left to be proud of. That is why when I can I go for the goods made here in the U.S. is it 100% possible? nope, sometimes some goods are no longer made here in the U.S. so I try and find a great brand I know and trust. The cars toyta honda and nissan build are great cars. The factories jobs and billions they put into this country to get a foothold on our economy, this is something that is good for our economy sure, but is it great for our welfare as a nation? Is it good to buy these cars while peices of our nation go dark. For every Toyota plant that goes up, a domestic plant closes. So how is this a good thing? One town grows while the other becomes a ghost town. We let this because it is out of sight out of mind. We dont see it so who cares it doesnt matter. Well it does. You can twist it any way you want but the problem is we need to help ourselves and not let other countries "help" us. Alot of America has lost its sight on what it means to be American.
Now on to Japan,
Japan as a country is amazing. Culture and lifestyle is amazing how they have become one of the most dominant roles in the world. Fact is and I state it as such, Japan does everything for one thing, JAPAN. The workforce, the mentality everything is for the country. Case in point the Red Sox just aquired pitcher from Japan. One of his press releases was stated that hes very proud and hope to do well for his wife and child, his old baseball team and Japan. Now the Sport commentator stated that he mentions Japan last as how the structure in Japan is set up. You represent Japan and it is paramount in the way they think in the workforce. Everything is for the betterment of the country. This is just baseball, but this is the most current and popular use of what exactly I have stated before. the Japanese do everything for Japan, not to help out anyone but to the betterment of thier country. With that said this is what the U.S. was like 60 years ago. The "American Pride" of who we were and look at what it got us in terms of global recognition it meant something if it was America. Japan and its people are taking that thinking the way we did before the U.S. became blind to the facts. Japans work ethics are what drives its economy, the way that they make products. The Japanses Auto industry. Yea I know we basically gave them them everything to get it going, money tooling and the likes. The students are now teaching the master how it is done. Kinda funny huh? Well the students are moving into the masters house and guess what we dont care..it doesnt matter right? no it does and the sad thing is peopel think another countries going to help us out and do all of this. Well there are but its a huge price. That price I am sad to say is being paid by the ignorance from people in the U.S. that do not know what it is to be what we were supposed to be. Proud of this country.

 

It seems you've put a lot of thought and research into the cultures of both Japan and the US. I took an upper level global IT class last year that the professor spent a lot of time discussing Hofstede's four dimensions. This guy believed that a nation's overall culture directly impacted its economic relationship with the global economy, and that while something may seem normal or abnormal to us, it doesn't necessarily seem that way to other nations. Now all of that may seem obvious, but this guy, IMO, was brilliant at qualifying and quantifying four basic primary factors for almost every noteworthy nation out there, and he's got his basic summary of findings online. I suggest reading up, at least on his website, if not more, if you haven't already... it's really insightful stuff.
http://www.geert-hofstede.com/

Of note:
The US is, per his research, arguably THE most individualistic nation in the entire world. This makes us a nation with very high likelyhood of breakthrough research, creative designs, and exploring beyond the 'rules' and known limitations of our world today. It also makes us far less likely to work together as a 'team' in everything from a corporate environment, to our social lives, and even as a nation - we tend to prefer to only work with somebody if it serves some benefit to us.
We also feel empowered to question everything, including our own government, with which we have a relatively low power distance rating. In our culture we feel we have overriding authority over our government and that our government works for us. While it doesn't always seem that way to some people, relatively to many other nations, we definitely have a lot of control and checks and balances over our government.
Now all of that above seems very normal to us - but in other nations it seems strange, if not downright "wrong".

The truth is that neither realm of thought is right or wrong, but it does shape the way that we interact with other cultures and their economies, especially, on a global scale.

The fact that in the US we are always thinking for ourselves, yet outside the box means that we were one of it not flat out THE first nation to become an industrial powerhouse. When the rest of the nations caught up to us, though, and could do many things that we could do cheaper and sometimes even better because of their willingness and desire to work for less money to support their family and support their country... our people faced the choice of either competing and accepting lower wages, or moving on to some new area of industry that we could make bundles of money on that nobody else could, and that has led where we are today - in the age of services and information. Our country's new economy is based on a hierarchy of media, marketing, research, high level engineering, and advanced management and investment strategies. This is 'scary' territory for some people because we don't actually MAKE much of anything anymore - if you asked to see what makes our economy valuable you'd have to be shown what's in people's minds and stored on their computers and servers.

Whether or not you think this is a good idea, it's almost completely unstoppable - it is the nature of our country's culture, and it is what has made us so successful today. It may very well lead to our downfall, or we may just have a 'the sky is falling' attitude toward such a change and it'll end up being just fine, but one way or another, it's inevitable and is just a product of the world we live in, for better or for worse.

I tend to think that even if it hurts the US' economy a bit, it's for the betterment of the world. Short of being an isolationist economy, which definitely won't work over the long-term, the general rule of 'what goes up, must come down' has never been evaded, and a nation can only be the richest and most powerful for so long.

In fact, to me, it's fitting to see the US being so individualistic, so hard to define with one set 'culture', and at the forefront of the new age of the global economy, since we are in effect the culmination of many different nations and cultures that occurred only a few hundred years ago - we are the melting pot, and a very new melting pot, relatively speaking, at that.

 

Great read Threxx and will look more into it. The fear I have is that in this transition we as a country loose focus of who we are and other countried dictate who they want us to be.
We have the means to be a great contributor to this economy but we have to do it in a way that benifits us the U.S. and not letting other countries come in and take what we hold dear.

 

my eyes hurt from all this damn reading

 

Mine too! Some good posts in here too. Caps I agree. I don't know if Threxx was talking about me earlier, but let me clarify anyway! I don't hate the Japanese either, it's more that I want to preserve what we have here, like Caps mentioned. This goes for MOST other coutries as well, just want to get back to where "Made In America" meant something (for me it still does). This national pride which we have somehow lost in this country, is what we need to somehow regain. However with such a hostile media, it will prove to be quite difficult for US, but hopefully not impossible. Hopefully this is another one of those times, where our country will triumph over tremendous odds, as we have many times before. Maybe it's been due to devine intervetion? America is the greatest country, and we have done, and continue to do, great things for the rest of world, which much of the time, goes completely unreported by the dinosaur media, driveby media, or whatever you want to call them. IMHO they are the scums of the earth, and the ones who are really lying to the American people.