Thanks Darth, I didn't think I was crazy for thinking that. Sometimes 3rd Gen hysteria goes a little overboard here.

------------------
Mark

94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)

Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)

The F-body will NEVER die.

 

I agree. It seems like 3rd gen's have been put on a pedestal around here, and the 4th gen's flushed down the toilet...

To those who think that way, I advise taking a nice 3rd gen for a ride, then get into a nice 4th gen and go for a ride... tell me which is designed/packaged/put together better then...

I've owned and driven both... I know the answer!

 

I have also owned an '86 Z28. It was a nice car, as were all 3rd Gens for sure, but they were far from perfect. Aside from styling (which is a highly subjective thing anyway) I honestly don't see any area where the 3rd Gen would have a distinct advantage over the 4th...

------------------
Mark

94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)

Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)

The F-body will NEVER die.

 

Once again, you are right on the money!

 

And if you go to an F-body show, the 3rd gens seem to be at a distinct disadvantage, in terms of numbers.
The quality was just not there. I think alot of them just didn't survive.

I have two friends who own a garage. Every time they work on or drive a 3rd gen, I hear about how terrible the car is.

 

Most 3rd gens have led a harsh, abused life.

As an original owner of one, I can tell you that they had pretty bad fit and finish and plenty o' rattles....even brand new.

But you know what...people loved them. They loved the looks...they loved the handling....and yes they loved the performance(which was very respectable in a pre-LS1 world).

It's true that 4th gen fit and finish is marginally better than 3rd gen and they have fewer rattles (although most 4th gens I've ridden in, get them eventually).

But the point is that the 4th gen is a newer car...you would expect those sorts of improvements, wouldn't you......those and maby even more.

 

I don't get why everyone keeps acting like the Z28 was the top model..

Sure, it's a nice model...but it depends on your definition.

275hp 302ci...Z28...Trans Am car.

So is this a better car than a 427 powered Camaro? Yes?

That's like saying the Boss 302 was the best Mustang....what about the 428 Super Cobra Jet with 400hp?

They're different cars for different things, but the Z28/Boss 302 weren't really the big block kings of the street. They were Trans Am cars. And really, that's the image of good handling small blocks aren't what people think of with American muscle. It's all about big blocks with big acceleration

------------------
Jason

<A HREF="http://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/munche" TARGET=_blank>1997 A4 Z28 "Mongoose"
</A>

<A HREF="http://www.iz-us.com/images/cars/cougar/" TARGET=_blank>New Project: 1969 Mercury Cougar 351W
</A>

[This message has been edited by MunchE (edited July 12, 2002).]

 

I've been in Thirds and I've been in 4ths, and I like the Thirds better in EVERY way. No the converter thing is not exactly the same. I could care less about the LT1 which was barley faster than the L98. I like low RPM TQ and TPI is where that is. They also handle better, and the 1's that are taken care of are fine like mine and many others I know of. My friend has 1 of each and I ride in both so I'm not talking out of inexperience, and he agrees with me and still likes his 84 better, and he has the 35th SS!! Yeah its fast, but thats it. The reason people are like that with Thirds is because they were and are liked. Where I am there are alot of nice original Thirds, some in better condition than the 4ths which are obviously newer. Also for their time Thirds were much more impressive than 4ths were for theirs. Until the LS1 there was really nothing that was that good about them or that made much of a difference. Thirds brought real improvements over the previous Gens, the 4th did not until 3/4 of the way just because of 1 engine.

Z28=Top Camaro Performance. Camaro SS?? You mean the car that couldn't handle and still couldn't beat the Z28 at the track and on the street although it had more ci.?? Z28 has been top Camaro for years, until the 4th Gen brought it back in a stupid way and just pushed aside the known and associated Camaro Z28 name. Who needs SS on a Camaro?? Corvette has Z06, the specialty cars shouldn't have the same name as the FWD V6 and real SS cars from way back. They should have the Z names which are not only cooler but have a real meaning with the car.

[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 12, 2002).]

 

I don't know how else to say it, except that you are just dead wrong on all counts. So don't take this as a flame... more of a clarification.

1) The converter hump is the same. You are just wrong. The floor pans are the same on 3rd and 4th gens.

2) If you don't care about the power, that's fine, and that's your choice, but an LT1, and certainly an LS1 will run circles around an L98. That means the 4th gen outruns the 3rd gen (unless you bring the Trubo T/A into the mix... then you have a runner, but that's a very limited car... hard to count that as a general representation of 3rd gens...)

3) How do you figure they handle better? The are about the same, and the 4th gen handles bad roads better thanks to it's redesigned front suspension. The rear setup is identical.

 

1) "The converter hump is the same. You are just wrong. The floor pans are the same on 3rd and 4th gens."

Its not exactly the same dude. Its more under the seat and not near the console and there is more room there in the Thirds.

2) "If you don't care about the power, that's fine, and that's your choice, but an LT1, and certainly an LS1 will run circles around an L98. That means the 4th gen outruns the 3rd gen (unless you bring the Trubo T/A into the mix... then you have a runner, but that's a very limited car... hard to count that as a general representation of 3rd gens...)"

An LT1 will not run anything around an L98. They are barely faster, a few tenths stock for stock and will take an LT1 for most of a race until its HP starts to catch up with the TPI's TQ and then usually edge out, especially the Auto's. I know of L98's with light mods that have taken a few stock LT1's.

3) "How do you figure they handle better? The are about the same, and the 4th gen handles bad roads better thanks to it's redesigned front suspension. The rear setup is identical."

How do I figure?? Because its true. They attain higher G's than 4th's, have a better front suspension for handling, and are lower. 4ths have a better front suspension for terrain and yes the rear is near the same. That is all.

[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 12, 2002).]

 

I don't know what to tell you except that I have owned both cars. 1st a 1989 RS 5.0, then my 1999 Z28.

The hump is the same. It's just a fact. The 4th gen seats may be bolted on a little further back in the floor pan, I'm not sure, but it was never enough for me to notice a difference if that is true.

Regardless if the LT1 is slightly faster or not, it *IS* faster. And why are you taking the BEST motor from the 3rd gen, and not from the 4th, being the LS1? If you are gonna compare with the LT1, maybe you should pull out the Cross-Fire?

As for the handling. I'd have to look at some numbers for skidpad and such, but I don't remember there being a difference. I can also tell you that there was no way my stock 1989 RS 5.0 was going to outhandle my stock 1999 Z28. Not even close. Now, I know that's not a fair comparison, I'd have to compare an IROC or whatever, but still... today's 4th Gen SS is a great handling car. So is the Z28. I gotta put my money on a stock 2002 SS vs a stock 1992 Z28 on a road course.

Don't take it as I'm bashing the 3rd gens... I'm not. I like them a lot. They just are not superior to a 4th gen in any facet. Some might say styling, that is subjective.




[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited July 12, 2002).]

 

They are better their own in ways just as previous Gens have been better in their own ways. Newer isn't always better. I don't know how many times I can say the same thing, even a fact is taken as nonsense here so. If you think the floor is exactly the same and the room is the same, fine. If you think the top models can handle almost as good, fine.



Maybe we should talk about the GTO, now theres something we agree on.

[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 12, 2002).]

 

Hey - we usually see things in a similar light It'd get boring if we didn't have something to haggle over!

 

I put on an all Firebird and Trans Am show last month in Syracuse, NY. We had over 100 Pontiac F-bodies of all years. The 3rd gen cars were the least represented of all the generations. Of the registered cars,we had only 11 of them. For comparison, we had 14 1st gens, 22 2nd gens, and 39 4th gens. (these numbers do not add up to 100 because some people failed to register for the show).
Even the guys that own them conceded to me that they know the 3rd gens are the least popular generation, currently.
The 4th gens might be only marginally better than the 3rds, but they are better.

I think history will show which gen is the most popular. My guess is the 2nd gen, then 1st, then 4th, and then 3rd.

 

I owned a 91 Z28 L98 and a 95 Trans Am. Here is my opinion...

I enjoyed my 95 TA a lot from the point that it looked great (blk on blk), had T tops, and I enjoyed cruising in town or taking a roofless ride to the lake in it. It was .5 seconds faster in the 1/4 than my 91 Z28, and the handling was good yet unpredictable, unlike the 91 Z28. Overall, fast going straight, looked great, loved to cruise.

The 91 Z28....
I hate myself everyday for selling this car for the 95 TA. The car had buckets of low end torque, and handled like you were one with the car. I wish I still had it. Best Fbody I have ever driven....

Mike Breen

[This message has been edited by Big Money Mike (edited July 12, 2002).]