Z284ever

That's right. A car as long as the current Camaro ought to have room for seating for seven.

Darth Xed

While the Camaro does not have the interior space it probably should, comparing it to an RSX is a bit unfair.

The RSX is a front driver... therefore, no driveline tunnel needed, no rear axle to deal with.

The RSX has a little 4-banger, we have a V8... a much larger engine to be sure... requires a bigger engine bay, and therefore, a bigger car.




[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited July 10, 2002).]

cmc

But you also don't need a car as big as the current model to get the kind of room it has right now. It'd probably only need to be 15% or 20% bigger than the RSX.

Why does a BMW 3-series have almost the same amount of room as a Camaro?

Darth Xed

Does a BMW 3-series sit as low to the ground as a Camaro?

Think about the way the Camaro is set up. It is set to be low to the ground, for handling and styling purposes.

To accomplish this, the Camaro is layed 'deep' onto it's framework. Look at the rear axle for example. The rear hatch area has to has that big bump in it to accomodate the rear axle and suspension in order to keep the car low.

The BMW , on the other hand, sits 'on top of' it's framework... therefore none of the driveline or suspension components 'intrude' into the cabin space...

That is the difference.

Two different animals.

I agree, the space is too small, and while I am no engineer, I would imagine they could get it better (This framework was developed for the 1982 Camaro afterall) , but the Camaro is a sports car, and the BMW 3-series is a small luxury car... two different lines of thought.


[This message has been edited by Darth Xed (edited July 10, 2002).]

cmc

So if you lowered a BMW 3-series down "onto its framework", you'd have a bigger driveline hump, a little less trunk space, and there might be something to do about the engine/hood clearance. You won't lose much if any driver/passenger room or grow in size.

Darth Xed

True, but remember that along with the hump in the trunk, you'd lose all kind of interior space, because everything under the car gobbles up that space.

The driveline tunnel hump would appear, the exhaust would have to fit (remember the nasty cat-hump in the Camaro?) the tranny would probably protrude into the cabin space...

Lots of things to consider.

cmc

The point is, this car can be made a hell of a lot smaller without losing any interior room.

Darth Xed

Where do you hack off the size?

I doubt much could be removed from the front of the car. The engine is crammed way back under the windshield as it is. The wheels could be pushed forward, to gain a little bit of space, I suppose.

Perhaps the rear overhang could be reduced... but then you lose a lot of your already limited cargo capacity.

I just don't see how (or why for that matter) that everyone thinks the Camaro can/should be made significantly smaller.

I understand the whole horsepower to weight ratio thing, but this car should not be the size of a Cavalier or Civic.

cmc

I don't mean using the F-body chassis, and I also don't think that the car will have the same exact layout (seats on the floor, roof at your waist) as it does now.

Do you know what car is actually the same size as a Camaro?

The Camaro is 193 inches long, 74 inches wide and 51 inches tall.

The Lexus LS430 is 196 inches long, 72 inches wide, and 58 inches tall and it has probably twice the interior room. Also, a V8, and rear wheel drive.

The BMW 740i is 196 inches long, 73 inches wide, and 56 inches tall.

I'm sure those couple of inches in height are why it's got probably double the interior space of a Camaro.

Darth Xed

I'd imagine things 'could' change with a 5th gen Sigma Camaro... but to gain interior space, and shrink exterior size, I'd think the body would be positioned 'on top' rather than 'deep into' the Sigma arcitecture, much like the cars you mentioned above.

The drawback, at least as I see it, would be a taller Camaro, and a higher center of gravity, resulting in potential handling issues...

cmc

Compromises can be made. Perhaps later on when I have some time I could really come up with some suggestions, but I imagine it could gain some interior space, lose at least one foot of length, and still handle better, based on the more rigid, better-balanced architectures out there (Sigma, namely).

Darth Xed

You are probably right... from what I hear the Sigma arctitecture is far superior to the F-Platform...

Maybe we'll be able to get the best of both worlds!

Z28Wilson

Comparing Camaro to Lexus or BMW? The BMW 7-series is a little bigger than Camaro with tons more interior space, yes. The 7-series is also a luxury people-hauler with 4 doors. That is what it is designed to be. Camaro is as big as it is today because it is riding on the 3rd Gen architecture which was never meant to do anything but handle great and look good. The 4th Gen windshield, while I like it styling-wise, only further complicates the packaging issue. Looking at the CTS, sigma should make a nice platform for the next Camaro. Roomier inside (but not 7-series roomy, thanks) and sits a bit higher, bringing it closer to the classic pony-car formula.

------------------
Mark

94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)

Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)

The F-body will NEVER die.

Z284ever

The current car is a packaging/ergonomic/dimensional nightmare. It is 20 year old architecture after all.

A modern design would give plenty of opportunity to both dramatically reduce exterior size and improve interior comfort.

IZ28

But the thing is not only did the Third Gen handle incredible and look great, it didn't have the engine in the dash, that converter thing wasn't as pronounced, the windsheild and dash positioning was better, and the int. had more room in front. Not sure about the other seats and stuff. Why did they change those things when they were already good/better?? And there were Third Gens that did more than just handle and look good.

I'd like to see the dimensions of a 5th somewhere between the Third's and 1st's. The 2nd's and 4th's were just too much.