Camaro-from the horse
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
Don't forget the slammin' "Iron Duke" 4 cylinder in the early 3rd Gens 
I distinctly remember Scott S., in a discussion about the floor hump here, saying that they carried the 3rd Gen floorpan over into the 4th. The position of the seats may be slightly different, not sure though.
Seriously, I think I posted some very valid 4th Gen arguments in the other thread ("would you buy a 4th Gen if they continued") so I won't repeat them here. At this point maybe it's time to move on to talking about a car that most certainly will put the 3rd AND 4th Gen to shame....the 5th!!!
------------------
Mark
94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)
Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)
The F-body will NEVER die.
[This message has been edited by Z28Wilson (edited July 12, 2002).]
I distinctly remember Scott S., in a discussion about the floor hump here, saying that they carried the 3rd Gen floorpan over into the 4th. The position of the seats may be slightly different, not sure though.
Seriously, I think I posted some very valid 4th Gen arguments in the other thread ("would you buy a 4th Gen if they continued") so I won't repeat them here. At this point maybe it's time to move on to talking about a car that most certainly will put the 3rd AND 4th Gen to shame....the 5th!!!
------------------
Mark
94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)
Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)
The F-body will NEVER die.
[This message has been edited by Z28Wilson (edited July 12, 2002).]
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Darth Xed:
It'd get boring if we didn't have something to haggle over!
</font>
It'd get boring if we didn't have something to haggle over!
</font>
As far as popularity HJ, are you crazy?? The Third was maybe the most popular Gen of all time. I'd say they're still more liked today than the 4ths are. Every1 had to have them and sales figures show it. Why don't you see that many Thirds at those things?? Because its different in certain areas and most are owned by younger people that aren't interested in going to things like that. I am 1 that does though. Here at shows and cruises theres always more nice Thirds than 4ths and they always get more attention no matter what engine they have. If they happen to be faster than a 4th or whatever its just a bonus.
I'm glad you feel that way BMM, I agree and know what you're saying.
That is usually what I hear from most also.[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 12, 2002).]
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,224
From: CNY
IZ28,
I'm not crazy. These are the cold, hard numbers. We saw alot more 4th gens at our show than any other gen, 2nd gens were next, then 1st gens, then 3rd gens.
We don't see many nice 3rd gens in Central New York.
And I know that the 3rd gens sold better than the 4th gens. Probably because of advertising.
But from what I can see, people bought them, drove them hard, they fell apart, and are now gone.
I don't know of one person who's looking to restore a 3rd gen. Not that there's a person who's doing that. I just don't know of any.
I'm not crazy. These are the cold, hard numbers. We saw alot more 4th gens at our show than any other gen, 2nd gens were next, then 1st gens, then 3rd gens.
We don't see many nice 3rd gens in Central New York.
And I know that the 3rd gens sold better than the 4th gens. Probably because of advertising.
But from what I can see, people bought them, drove them hard, they fell apart, and are now gone.
I don't know of one person who's looking to restore a 3rd gen. Not that there's a person who's doing that. I just don't know of any.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MunchE:
I don't get why everyone keeps acting like the Z28 was the top model..
Sure, it's a nice model...but it depends on your definition.
275hp 302ci...Z28...Trans Am car.
So is this a better car than a 427 powered Camaro? Yes?
That's like saying the Boss 302 was the best Mustang....what about the 428 Super Cobra Jet with 400hp?
They're different cars for different things, but the Z28/Boss 302 weren't really the big block kings of the street. They were Trans Am cars. And really, that's the image of good handling small blocks aren't what people think of with American muscle. It's all about big blocks with big acceleration
</font>
I don't get why everyone keeps acting like the Z28 was the top model..
Sure, it's a nice model...but it depends on your definition.
275hp 302ci...Z28...Trans Am car.
So is this a better car than a 427 powered Camaro? Yes?
That's like saying the Boss 302 was the best Mustang....what about the 428 Super Cobra Jet with 400hp?
They're different cars for different things, but the Z28/Boss 302 weren't really the big block kings of the street. They were Trans Am cars. And really, that's the image of good handling small blocks aren't what people think of with American muscle. It's all about big blocks with big acceleration
</font>
Maybe alittle clarification is in order.
The 1st gen 302s were under rated at "290 hp", (coincidentally, exactly the same as the BOSS 302...maybe they were having fun with us
).It is commonly acknowledged that no Z/28 302 left the factory with less than 350 hp. Add the optional cross ram intake and 2x4 Holleys, optional cam, and optional headers and you had a 400 hp, 7200 rpm screamer, off the showroom floor (again, still rated at 290hp)....and with the Z/28 suspension and 4 wheel discs...you could actually stop and turn.
Add the right optional gearing to this combo...and you could smoke any 396SS at the strip and completely embarass it on a road course.
....that's why everyone keeps acting like the Z/28 was the top model.
As for the 427 cars...they were truly awesome...but these were RARE COPO cars.
[This message has been edited by Z284ever (edited July 13, 2002).]
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Z28Wilson:
At this point maybe it's time to move on to talking about a car that most certainly will put the 3rd AND 4th Gen to shame....the 5th!!!
</font>
At this point maybe it's time to move on to talking about a car that most certainly will put the 3rd AND 4th Gen to shame....the 5th!!!
</font>
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HuJass:
IZ28,
I'm not crazy. These are the cold, hard numbers. We saw alot more 4th gens at our show than any other gen, 2nd gens were next, then 1st gens, then 3rd gens.
We don't see many nice 3rd gens in Central New York.
And I know that the 3rd gens sold better than the 4th gens. Probably because of advertising.
But from what I can see, people bought them, drove them hard, they fell apart, and are now gone.
I don't know of one person who's looking to restore a 3rd gen. Not that there's a person who's doing that. I just don't know of any.</font>
IZ28,
I'm not crazy. These are the cold, hard numbers. We saw alot more 4th gens at our show than any other gen, 2nd gens were next, then 1st gens, then 3rd gens.
We don't see many nice 3rd gens in Central New York.
And I know that the 3rd gens sold better than the 4th gens. Probably because of advertising.
But from what I can see, people bought them, drove them hard, they fell apart, and are now gone.
I don't know of one person who's looking to restore a 3rd gen. Not that there's a person who's doing that. I just don't know of any.</font>
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Z284ever:
I hope the 5th gen turns out so well...it will make all previous gens look like quaint contraptions!</font>
I hope the 5th gen turns out so well...it will make all previous gens look like quaint contraptions!</font>
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,224
From: CNY
IZ28,
Here's a few qoutes right out of the current High Performance Pontiac. It's the October 2002 issue.
The article is titled "Firebird First Aid" by Troy Avent. It appears on page 28.
The article is in references to the 3rd gen Firebird and all it's problems. Let me quote:
"Little did buyers know how badly their cars would devalue after years of service, when none of them worked anymore."
"Unfortunately, they seem to suffer from a laundry list of common aging issues that make them ratty before their time."
"What's great about working on these F-bodies on a tight budget is that the junkyards are full of them, and a lot of components are common with the Camaro, making the parts selection more plentiful. Unfortunately, the same dibilitated pieces you need to replace on your Bird have also degraded on these junkers...or worse, some other crafty driveway doctor has already performed a successful transplant from the recycled Bird to his own. It's obvious that there are genetic disabilities with the breed when all the junkyard cars are stripped of the same parts, no matter where you go."
"Our GTA's paint is horrible, as the original mix for the Van Nuys F-body plant on many Third-Gen cars was an early version of the water-based paints mandated by Cal OSHA and the EPA. You should assume that you will probably have to paint almost any of these Van Nuys cars if they haven't already been resprayed."
And then he goes on to talk about all the problems with his particular car. Like: bad upholstry, sagging headliner, overheating, fried temp sender wire connector, stuck (in the up position) driverside headlight, rattling rear hatch, exhaust fumes coming in, have to slam driver's door, bad heater core, inoperable power antenna.
Then he says, "the previous owner should have paid us to take it off his hands".
And this is right in a national magazine devoted to Pontiacs.
I'm tellin'ya. The 3rd gens are the worst of the bunch.
If someone GAVE me a perfect, 0 mile 3rd gen car, I'd sell it.
Here's a few qoutes right out of the current High Performance Pontiac. It's the October 2002 issue.
The article is titled "Firebird First Aid" by Troy Avent. It appears on page 28.
The article is in references to the 3rd gen Firebird and all it's problems. Let me quote:
"Little did buyers know how badly their cars would devalue after years of service, when none of them worked anymore."
"Unfortunately, they seem to suffer from a laundry list of common aging issues that make them ratty before their time."
"What's great about working on these F-bodies on a tight budget is that the junkyards are full of them, and a lot of components are common with the Camaro, making the parts selection more plentiful. Unfortunately, the same dibilitated pieces you need to replace on your Bird have also degraded on these junkers...or worse, some other crafty driveway doctor has already performed a successful transplant from the recycled Bird to his own. It's obvious that there are genetic disabilities with the breed when all the junkyard cars are stripped of the same parts, no matter where you go."
"Our GTA's paint is horrible, as the original mix for the Van Nuys F-body plant on many Third-Gen cars was an early version of the water-based paints mandated by Cal OSHA and the EPA. You should assume that you will probably have to paint almost any of these Van Nuys cars if they haven't already been resprayed."
And then he goes on to talk about all the problems with his particular car. Like: bad upholstry, sagging headliner, overheating, fried temp sender wire connector, stuck (in the up position) driverside headlight, rattling rear hatch, exhaust fumes coming in, have to slam driver's door, bad heater core, inoperable power antenna.
Then he says, "the previous owner should have paid us to take it off his hands".
And this is right in a national magazine devoted to Pontiacs.
I'm tellin'ya. The 3rd gens are the worst of the bunch.
If someone GAVE me a perfect, 0 mile 3rd gen car, I'd sell it.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,165
From: Sterling Heights, MI
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HuJass:
I'm tellin'ya. The 3rd gens are the worst of the bunch. If someone GAVE me a perfect, 0 mile 3rd gen car, I'd sell it.</font>
I'm tellin'ya. The 3rd gens are the worst of the bunch. If someone GAVE me a perfect, 0 mile 3rd gen car, I'd sell it.</font>
------------------
Mark
94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)
Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)
The F-body will NEVER die.
[This message has been edited by Z28Wilson (edited July 13, 2002).]
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HuJass:
IZ28,
Here's a few qoutes right out of the current High Performance Pontiac. It's the October 2002 issue.
The article is titled "Firebird First Aid" by Troy Avent. It appears on page 28.
The article is in references to the 3rd gen Firebird and all it's problems. Let me quote:
"Little did buyers know how badly their cars would devalue after years of service, when none of them worked anymore."
"Unfortunately, they seem to suffer from a laundry list of common aging issues that make them ratty before their time."
"What's great about working on these F-bodies on a tight budget is that the junkyards are full of them, and a lot of components are common with the Camaro, making the parts selection more plentiful. Unfortunately, the same dibilitated pieces you need to replace on your Bird have also degraded on these junkers...or worse, some other crafty driveway doctor has already performed a successful transplant from the recycled Bird to his own. It's obvious that there are genetic disabilities with the breed when all the junkyard cars are stripped of the same parts, no matter where you go."
"Our GTA's paint is horrible, as the original mix for the Van Nuys F-body plant on many Third-Gen cars was an early version of the water-based paints mandated by Cal OSHA and the EPA. You should assume that you will probably have to paint almost any of these Van Nuys cars if they haven't already been resprayed."
And then he goes on to talk about all the problems with his particular car. Like: bad upholstry, sagging headliner, overheating, fried temp sender wire connector, stuck (in the up position) driverside headlight, rattling rear hatch, exhaust fumes coming in, have to slam driver's door, bad heater core, inoperable power antenna.
Then he says, "the previous owner should have paid us to take it off his hands".
And this is right in a national magazine devoted to Pontiacs.
I'm tellin'ya. The 3rd gens are the worst of the bunch.
If someone GAVE me a perfect, 0 mile 3rd gen car, I'd sell it.</font>
IZ28,
Here's a few qoutes right out of the current High Performance Pontiac. It's the October 2002 issue.
The article is titled "Firebird First Aid" by Troy Avent. It appears on page 28.
The article is in references to the 3rd gen Firebird and all it's problems. Let me quote:
"Little did buyers know how badly their cars would devalue after years of service, when none of them worked anymore."
"Unfortunately, they seem to suffer from a laundry list of common aging issues that make them ratty before their time."
"What's great about working on these F-bodies on a tight budget is that the junkyards are full of them, and a lot of components are common with the Camaro, making the parts selection more plentiful. Unfortunately, the same dibilitated pieces you need to replace on your Bird have also degraded on these junkers...or worse, some other crafty driveway doctor has already performed a successful transplant from the recycled Bird to his own. It's obvious that there are genetic disabilities with the breed when all the junkyard cars are stripped of the same parts, no matter where you go."
"Our GTA's paint is horrible, as the original mix for the Van Nuys F-body plant on many Third-Gen cars was an early version of the water-based paints mandated by Cal OSHA and the EPA. You should assume that you will probably have to paint almost any of these Van Nuys cars if they haven't already been resprayed."
And then he goes on to talk about all the problems with his particular car. Like: bad upholstry, sagging headliner, overheating, fried temp sender wire connector, stuck (in the up position) driverside headlight, rattling rear hatch, exhaust fumes coming in, have to slam driver's door, bad heater core, inoperable power antenna.
Then he says, "the previous owner should have paid us to take it off his hands".
And this is right in a national magazine devoted to Pontiacs.
I'm tellin'ya. The 3rd gens are the worst of the bunch.
If someone GAVE me a perfect, 0 mile 3rd gen car, I'd sell it.</font>
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 14, 2002).]
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
Is the 3rd gen a great car?
They are the best lawn ornaments for a trailor that money can buy.
I see the 4th gen has an evolution of the 3rd gen...with that in mind there is no way a 3rd gen is better. I almost wonder if the build quality on my 79 Firebird wasn't better than the 3rd gen.
This whole converstion IMO is almost laughable. I mean hell if I owned a 3rd gen I would defend it too...I wouldnt wanna realize what a POS it can be. Find me an IROC Z with the factory paint and no oxideation and we will talk.
------------------
Branden-Founder www.GMInsidenews.com
The #1 GM News Site on the Net!
1995 Firebird A4
White with red leather
1979 Firebird Formula SOLD!!! 8/2001
Visit my homepage!
They are the best lawn ornaments for a trailor that money can buy.
I see the 4th gen has an evolution of the 3rd gen...with that in mind there is no way a 3rd gen is better. I almost wonder if the build quality on my 79 Firebird wasn't better than the 3rd gen.
This whole converstion IMO is almost laughable. I mean hell if I owned a 3rd gen I would defend it too...I wouldnt wanna realize what a POS it can be. Find me an IROC Z with the factory paint and no oxideation and we will talk.
------------------
Branden-Founder www.GMInsidenews.com
The #1 GM News Site on the Net!
1995 Firebird A4
White with red leather
1979 Firebird Formula SOLD!!! 8/2001
Visit my homepage!
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by formula79:
Is the 3rd gen a great car?
They are the best lawn ornaments for a trailor that money can buy.
</font>
Is the 3rd gen a great car?
They are the best lawn ornaments for a trailor that money can buy.
</font>
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by formula79:
Find me an IROC Z with the factory paint and no oxideation and we will talk.
</font>
Find me an IROC Z with the factory paint and no oxideation and we will talk.
</font>
I have one in my garage...wanna talk?
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by formula79:
Is the 3rd gen a great car?
They are the best lawn ornaments for a trailor that money can buy.
I see the 4th gen has an evolution of the 3rd gen...with that in mind there is no way a 3rd gen is better. I almost wonder if the build quality on my 79 Firebird wasn't better than the 3rd gen.
This whole converstion IMO is almost laughable. I mean hell if I owned a 3rd gen I would defend it too...I wouldnt wanna realize what a POS it can be. Find me an IROC Z with the factory paint and no oxideation and we will talk.
</font>
Is the 3rd gen a great car?
They are the best lawn ornaments for a trailor that money can buy.
I see the 4th gen has an evolution of the 3rd gen...with that in mind there is no way a 3rd gen is better. I almost wonder if the build quality on my 79 Firebird wasn't better than the 3rd gen.
This whole converstion IMO is almost laughable. I mean hell if I owned a 3rd gen I would defend it too...I wouldnt wanna realize what a POS it can be. Find me an IROC Z with the factory paint and no oxideation and we will talk.
</font>
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 15, 2002).]