Camaro-from the horse
07-02-2002, 12:32 AM
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Camaro-from the horse
Highlights from GM execs:
Just how many RWD GM concepts can there be?
AW:Reuss added that GM will introduce several small and mid-sized rwd concepts at next year's Detroit auto show that could share a platform
TCC
emant estimates the Solstice and other rear-drivers from the same platform could total some 250,000 units each year.
Who wants to bet there will be a Camaro and a Soltace at the NAIAS?
http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...56,174&sid=174
COULD SOLSTICE SEE LIGHT OF DAY?
Automotive News quotes GM execs who say the company is trying to build a case for a small rear-drive platform that could host a production version of the Pontiac Solstice and an Opel variant. The industry weekly says Hans Demant, an Opel board member, let on GM’s interest in building the two-seat roadster, which outshone the Chevrolet Bel Air concept at last January’s Detroit auto show. Demant estimates the Solstice and other rear-drivers from the same platform could total some 250,000 units each year.
From Autoweek:
MUNICH, Germany -- General Motors is trying to create a business case for at least two small, rear-wheel-drive sporty cars, including the Pontiac Solstice.
Adam Opel AG would sell the second car in Europe.
Hans Demant, an Opel board member, said the automaker is looking at developing a new rwd platform or modifying an existing front-wheel-drive platform to accommodate rwd. Opel also is determining if it has enough capacity to build parts for the new cars, Demant said at a press event here.
The Pontiac Solstice is a two-passenger, rwd concept that was a star at this year's Detroit auto show.
GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz said the Solstice, if built, would have a base price of around $25,000 and be aimed at young buyers.
Demant said, "When we look at the viability of a new platform, min-imum volume requires the component sets of at least 200,000 to 250,000 units a year."
But such sales volume is unlikely for the Solstice, he said, so other cars would be needed for the project. No details were given.
Mark Reuss, executive director of operations for engineering and specialty vehicles, said GM is looking at whether its fwd Delta platform could be modified for the rwd Solstice.
Reuss added that GM will introduce several small and mid-sized rwd concepts at next year's Detroit auto show that could share a platform. He spoke Thursday, June 20, at a preview for GM's 2003 vehicles in Milan, Mich.
Demant said Opel "is working on design ideas. How would we translate the Opel design language to something like this, and what kind of car could we create out of it? It's all in the 'what if' stage."
Just how many RWD GM concepts can there be?
AW:Reuss added that GM will introduce several small and mid-sized rwd concepts at next year's Detroit auto show that could share a platform
TCC
emant estimates the Solstice and other rear-drivers from the same platform could total some 250,000 units each year.Who wants to bet there will be a Camaro and a Soltace at the NAIAS?
http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...56,174&sid=174
COULD SOLSTICE SEE LIGHT OF DAY?
Automotive News quotes GM execs who say the company is trying to build a case for a small rear-drive platform that could host a production version of the Pontiac Solstice and an Opel variant. The industry weekly says Hans Demant, an Opel board member, let on GM’s interest in building the two-seat roadster, which outshone the Chevrolet Bel Air concept at last January’s Detroit auto show. Demant estimates the Solstice and other rear-drivers from the same platform could total some 250,000 units each year.
From Autoweek:
MUNICH, Germany -- General Motors is trying to create a business case for at least two small, rear-wheel-drive sporty cars, including the Pontiac Solstice.
Adam Opel AG would sell the second car in Europe.
Hans Demant, an Opel board member, said the automaker is looking at developing a new rwd platform or modifying an existing front-wheel-drive platform to accommodate rwd. Opel also is determining if it has enough capacity to build parts for the new cars, Demant said at a press event here.
The Pontiac Solstice is a two-passenger, rwd concept that was a star at this year's Detroit auto show.
GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz said the Solstice, if built, would have a base price of around $25,000 and be aimed at young buyers.
Demant said, "When we look at the viability of a new platform, min-imum volume requires the component sets of at least 200,000 to 250,000 units a year."
But such sales volume is unlikely for the Solstice, he said, so other cars would be needed for the project. No details were given.
Mark Reuss, executive director of operations for engineering and specialty vehicles, said GM is looking at whether its fwd Delta platform could be modified for the rwd Solstice.
Reuss added that GM will introduce several small and mid-sized rwd concepts at next year's Detroit auto show that could share a platform. He spoke Thursday, June 20, at a preview for GM's 2003 vehicles in Milan, Mich.
Demant said Opel "is working on design ideas. How would we translate the Opel design language to something like this, and what kind of car could we create out of it? It's all in the 'what if' stage."
07-02-2002, 07:39 AM
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Just less money for a Camaro program 
And even if it shared platforms with teh Solstice it would be small and not true to the heritage 
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And even if it shared platforms with teh Solstice it would be small and not true to the heritage ------------------
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07-02-2002, 08:56 AM
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I think I'm glad that Pontiac may be working with Opel to investigate a cheap RWD chassis, because for a while there...I was concerned that a 5th gen Camaro might be "forced" to "share" a warmed over Delta platform to make Solstice happen.
And I'm not so sure that funding other RWD programs will hurt Camaro. By that reasoning the 4th gen should have gotten unlimited funding!
Plus there is the advantage of component sharing. An expensive cost of high horsepower/torque models like Camaro is developement cost for beefy driveline components. The more GM spends on V8 and V12 Cadillac and Cunningham trannys, clutches, axles, differentials, etc.....the easier a 400hp Z/28 will be to develop.
And I'm not so sure that funding other RWD programs will hurt Camaro. By that reasoning the 4th gen should have gotten unlimited funding!
Plus there is the advantage of component sharing. An expensive cost of high horsepower/torque models like Camaro is developement cost for beefy driveline components. The more GM spends on V8 and V12 Cadillac and Cunningham trannys, clutches, axles, differentials, etc.....the easier a 400hp Z/28 will be to develop.
07-02-2002, 12:15 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by formula79:
Just less money for a Camaro program And even if it shared platforms with teh Solstice it would be small and not true to the heritage
</font>
Just less money for a Camaro program
And even if it shared platforms with teh Solstice it would be small and not true to the heritage </font>
A stretched/widened Solstice chasis, provided it remains rear-wheel drive and has independant suspension, might do well for a Camaro.
07-02-2002, 12:22 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmc:
No, we don't need a car as big as the current Camaro! Most family sedans are about that size or smaller!
A stretched/widened Solstice chasis, provided it remains rear-wheel drive and has independant suspension, might do well for a Camaro.</font>
No, we don't need a car as big as the current Camaro! Most family sedans are about that size or smaller!
A stretched/widened Solstice chasis, provided it remains rear-wheel drive and has independant suspension, might do well for a Camaro.</font>
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07-02-2002, 01:23 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by z28projects4ever:
Who wants to bet there will be a Camaro and a Soltace at the NAIAS?
</font>
Who wants to bet there will be a Camaro and a Soltace at the NAIAS?
</font>
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07-02-2002, 02:08 PM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by formula79:
I don't see a streched wheel based version being made..trust me if a basic version sees light of day it will be lucky. With how people act over teh GTO I would love to see what a miata sized Camaro would do
</font>
I don't see a streched wheel based version being made..trust me if a basic version sees light of day it will be lucky. With how people act over teh GTO I would love to see what a miata sized Camaro would do
</font>
Maybe 944/928 sized.
07-03-2002, 12:13 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Z284ever:
I'd love to see a smaller Camaro...not Miata sized...but just big enough to package a V8 and 2+2 configuration.
Maybe 944/928 sized.
</font>
I'd love to see a smaller Camaro...not Miata sized...but just big enough to package a V8 and 2+2 configuration.
Maybe 944/928 sized.
</font>
07-03-2002, 08:38 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmc:
Exactly! This is exactly what I'm advocating!</font>
Exactly! This is exactly what I'm advocating!</font>
A Camaro should weigh around 3200lbs, have a V8 and a back seat...You say Soltice I think Miata or S2000, not Camaro...
Lets step away from the crack pipe guys
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07-03-2002, 08:46 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by formula79:
Yup, nothing says Camaro heritage like a 2300lb roadster with a blown 4 banger A Camaro should weigh around 3200lbs, have a V8 and a back seat...
You say Soltice I think Miata or S2000, not Camaro...
Lets step away from the crack pipe guys
</font>
Yup, nothing says Camaro heritage like a 2300lb roadster with a blown 4 banger
A Camaro should weigh around 3200lbs, have a V8 and a back seat...You say Soltice I think Miata or S2000, not Camaro...
Lets step away from the crack pipe guys
</font>
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Originally posted by Z284ever:
I'd love to see a smaller Camaro...not Miata sized...but just big enough to package a V8 and 2+2 configuration.
Maybe 944/928 sized.
--------
There is no room in this market for a supposed 'sports coupe' that is bigger than your average family sedan, no matter how "retro" it looks! I don't think I am the one who needs to put down the crack pipe...
07-03-2002, 09:47 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmc:
Look, I know you want some reason to argue with me about this, but re-read what I said I was advocating:
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Originally posted by Z284ever:
I'd love to see a smaller Camaro...not Miata sized...but just big enough to package a V8 and 2+2 configuration.
Maybe 944/928 sized.
--------
There is no room in this market for a supposed 'sports coupe' that is bigger than your average family sedan, no matter how "retro" it looks! I don't think I am the one who needs to put down the crack pipe...</font>
Look, I know you want some reason to argue with me about this, but re-read what I said I was advocating:
--------
Originally posted by Z284ever:
I'd love to see a smaller Camaro...not Miata sized...but just big enough to package a V8 and 2+2 configuration.
Maybe 944/928 sized.
--------
There is no room in this market for a supposed 'sports coupe' that is bigger than your average family sedan, no matter how "retro" it looks! I don't think I am the one who needs to put down the crack pipe...</font>
Don't you think that I have looked into this????
The Solsticle is a threat to the Camaro more than anything. Everyone expects GM to make 4-5 different RWD coupes...it isn't gonna happen. The GTO already put it in the back seat...and developing a platform for the solstice will do so even more. I have a funny feeling we will see a Solstice based Camaro only over certain peoples dead body. Also conside that the Camaro has already been on the drawing board a while..just not approved. All of those plans are laid out around Sigma, not some bastardized Delta or J-body platform.
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07-03-2002, 10:55 AM
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I said I thought using the Solstice to base the chassis on, but I was definitely for the dimensions Z284ever was talking about, regardless of how GM went about it.
If GM went about it. You're right, though. A new Camaro will only be seen over the dead body of a RWD Monte Carlo. It's probably going to be a "one or the other" deal. Hopefully the Camaro gets it. Hopefully they size it correctly so that it'll actually appeal to a few more people than the starry-eyed nostalgics.
What do you know about the Solstice actually being based on a J-body/Delta bastardization, anyway? I thought that GM was seeking to develop a new platform with Opel for compact RWD cars, not seeking to throw a bunch of Junk-body and TrailBlazer parts together to make a RWD chassis.
If GM went about it. You're right, though. A new Camaro will only be seen over the dead body of a RWD Monte Carlo. It's probably going to be a "one or the other" deal. Hopefully the Camaro gets it. Hopefully they size it correctly so that it'll actually appeal to a few more people than the starry-eyed nostalgics.
What do you know about the Solstice actually being based on a J-body/Delta bastardization, anyway? I thought that GM was seeking to develop a new platform with Opel for compact RWD cars, not seeking to throw a bunch of Junk-body and TrailBlazer parts together to make a RWD chassis.
07-03-2002, 11:05 AM
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmc:
I said I thought using the Solstice to base the chassis on, but I was definitely for the dimensions Z284ever was talking about, regardless of how GM went about it.
If GM went about it. You're right, though. A new Camaro will only be seen over the dead body of a RWD Monte Carlo. It's probably going to be a "one or the other" deal. Hopefully the Camaro gets it. Hopefully they size it correctly so that it'll actually appeal to a few more people than the starry-eyed nostalgics.
What do you know about the Solstice actually being based on a J-body/Delta bastardization, anyway? I thought that GM was seeking to develop a new platform with Opel for compact RWD cars, not seeking to throw a bunch of Junk-body and TrailBlazer parts together to make a RWD chassis.</font>
I said I thought using the Solstice to base the chassis on, but I was definitely for the dimensions Z284ever was talking about, regardless of how GM went about it.
If GM went about it. You're right, though. A new Camaro will only be seen over the dead body of a RWD Monte Carlo. It's probably going to be a "one or the other" deal. Hopefully the Camaro gets it. Hopefully they size it correctly so that it'll actually appeal to a few more people than the starry-eyed nostalgics.
What do you know about the Solstice actually being based on a J-body/Delta bastardization, anyway? I thought that GM was seeking to develop a new platform with Opel for compact RWD cars, not seeking to throw a bunch of Junk-body and TrailBlazer parts together to make a RWD chassis.</font>
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07-03-2002, 11:32 AM
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My informants have also told me that the Solstice may be a threat to Camaro.
Don't get me wrong...I love the Solstice...but if it's approval means that the next Camaro will ride on a rehashed Delta platform....then, the Solstice MUST GO!!!!
Sigma or better for the Camaro, is all I will accept!
Don't get me wrong...I love the Solstice...but if it's approval means that the next Camaro will ride on a rehashed Delta platform....then, the Solstice MUST GO!!!!
Sigma or better for the Camaro, is all I will accept!