Now THAT is the right question, which is why its better to have a larger sample size from which you can derive a mean or median, rather than searching for the two lowest or highest outliers you can find and attempting to support a point with them.

Many more ZR1 reference points for comparison- http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...-the-dyno.html

On a side note, this is the best pissing contest we've had here in a while. I personally am taking a pause to give thanks to the fact that we're discussing 580 and 662 horsepower Mustangs and Camaros, when some just a few short years, months (or minutes) ago claimed the gubment was killing all our fun and would outlaw the cars we love to drive (or dream about).
This sure beats argueing about who's trying to "destroy America"

I'm not a "Mustang guy" by any means. However, 662HP with 16/24 rating which equals no gas guzzer penalty? I'll clap for that. Who would have predicted that before Ford did it?

Maybe we're better at this then we were in the 70's.

And yes, they'll have to pry my 12.6 combined liters of V8 engine from my cold, dead hands.

 

The real point is the chassis dyno is a tuning tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

The only thing that really matters when it comes to hp is trap speed. What does it do in the real world.

 

Yep, and thus far, high 115's to high 117's seem to be the norm for the ZL1. The only way that higher traps have been noted, is when they are corrected.

 

Agreed. I bit ironic when compared to the LS1/4.6 days, when the F-body was the better performer and got better mileage, while the Mustang out-sold it.

 

Whoops. You're right. I guess I was just used to seeing u values in the range of 0 to 1, especially rubber to dry asphalt being .5-.9 typically.

 

rwhp for high-horsepower cars is still going to be ~12%. 10% would be remarkable, but conceivable. It's true that some "base" losses are just constants, and thus give higher precentage losses in lower-output engines. But the biggies like losses in the transmission gear meshings (~3-5%) and ring/pinion (~5-8%) will go up with power. Also, tire slip will go up on the road, and losses due to having to strap down harder will increase tire losses on the dyno. It's not like losses approach 0% with more power, more like they might *approach* ~10%, and I would bet that's optimistic.

The big potential difference in losses between the GT500 and the ZL1 is if the ZL1 has any rear toe-in or camber. Toe-in in particular will cost a fair amount in terms of hp to the ground, or dyno drum.

 

Sure the losses increase with power. Simplistically, it takes more power to accelerate the rotating parts to the same RPM in less time.

 

Losses will increase with more power at fixed rpm (i.e., it's not just inertial losses due to greater rev rate). Greater forces on gear teeth => greater frictional losses in the trans and diff, also greater tire slip and/or hold-down force required.

 

Also have frictional losses in the bearings as well.

 

I was just thinking about this when the April sales were just released. With all that Ford has done with the Mustang since 2010. A completely new engine lineup; more power better efficiency. Exterior and interior styling changes. Adding iconic BOSS 302...
And still the Camaro continues to out pace it in sales. This without a complete linuep to match until ZL1 convert and 1LE join the ranks in 2013.

Complete roll reversal from the 4th Gen SN95/Edge days when Ford couldn't do any wrong and the F-bodies could only clean up at the track until they died.

 

The Camaro looks better. I don't know about the real world usability of the 5th gen vs the current stang, but I'd guess there must be some parity there.

Ford screwed up with the mild refresh in 2010. They should have gone more radical.

Looks/Usability >> Performance for the general public.

 

Really I think the Mustang is probably easier to live with every day.

But style is king in this segment.

 

I agree...the Camaro has so much more presence on the street. People turn and look as it goes by, and that it why it is beating Mustang in sales.

With that said, and as a performance enthusiast, I'd probably lean towards buying a new 5.0 Mustang over an SS Camaro.

 

Idk, I think Ford was skrewed from the beginning when Chevy released the Camaro. I'm guessing a good portion of the pony car market put uniqueness as a high criteria in purchasing a car. The Mustang has been around so long, it lost that flare. There's really nothing wrong with the car itself.

 

That seems about right, how many comments do you see saying "I dont like Mustangs because I see one at every stoplight" or some variation of that.