I blame the anger on GM for killing the Camaro and Firebird and peoples agression being taken out on the GTO.

 

I have been able to get no more than 13.4 @ 105.8 out of mine, but I will admit to not being anything even remotely resembling a skilled or experienced drag strip driver. A road course and twisty back-road circuits are more my forte, and that is where the GTO really shines.

 

I would attribute some of it to that. Stereotypes, misinformation, brand bigotry, and ignorance are never far from any discussion involving two or more different types of cars. Rarely does a conversation with the middle name "Vs." end well.b

 

How bout this....quit calling a car you probably don't have enough interest in to ever have even driven an overpriced, slow piece of crap....

THIS is why I rarely come on this board anymore. It's heavily LT1-oriented and everytime an LT1 beats an LS-anything, you guys pull out the "well look how overrated those slow pieces of s**t are!" comments. don't get me wrong...MANY of you are cool, but there's that fringe that just CAN'T allow anyone to have something newer or more powerful without pointing out or making up shortcomings to make themselves feel better.

there's this ridiculous celebration, patting on the back and other nutswinging EVERY SINGLE TIME somebody tells a story about killing anything with a gen III/gen IV motor in it.

DON'T deny this overcompensation exists....I used to have an LT1 and I was one of those "yea man the LT1 is still the s**t, those LS1s are NOTHIN!" people too.

then I woke up and realized that although there's NOTHING wrong with an LT1, the newer cars offer up generally superior performance and are more amiable to modification if you're willing to spend the money on them.

that DOESN'T make my GTO a slow piece of crap.....and as for overpriced....you're one of those people who think they should build it in a low-production volume factory, fill it with EVERYTHING as standard equipment, ship it half way around the world and sell it for $22,000 aren't you?

wake up and join the 21st century....find me a better GT-type car for 30 grand.

 

You don't know a thing about me...and it is a slow for what it cost.

This is where your bias comes into play...if an LT1 beats a GTO, the GTO guys immediately start yapping about the driver, the car is not at it's potential....bull****, they get beat because they are not drag racing cars. Yet, somehow this facet never occurs to most GTO owners. They are the cars that are making 350-360 rwhp stock and run like crap for the most part.

It is literally to the point that if an LT1 races an LS1 or LS2, beating them results in a flame fest...that can be expected, but now staying within any distance results in the same crap. Enough...yet amazingly you guys just do not see that.

I mean how fast does an LT1 really have to be to beat a stock GTO...maybe my soon to be 500 rwhp LT1 might be able to stay within 100 yards...and god forbid we go from a roll...does not matter if the car traps 25 mph more.

Personally, I think anyone that buys a GTO for performance MUST HAVE MISSED THE 03/04 COBRA BOAT.

 

WOW.. I love this guy...

 

I am still not remembering fully-loaded LT1/LS1 F-Bodies being sold for much less than a GTO when new. Granted, I could buy 4 '93 Z28's right now for what my GTO costs, but that is apples and oranges. I seem to recall the '02 SS sticker price being in the neighborhood of $30,000. I have beaten and lost to stock LS1 F-Bodies, but I have only raced a grand total of 3.



If a STOCK LT1 beats a GTO, then I would yap about the driver. Anything can happen, and the driver mod is the most effective. I do not question a modded LT1 beating a stock GTO, nor do I find it surprising. Assuming equal mods on both sides, I do not see an LT1 beating a GTO. Could it happen? Sure. Do I find it likely? No.

While I will not argue that the GTO does not have the optimal drag racing setup in stock trim, it certainly does not run like crap. An LT1 F-Body needs mods to beat it. An LS1 F-Body is a drivers race (stock-stock). An 03-04 Cobra is a drivers race. I am 2-1 against stock LS1 F-Bodies, and 1-1 against the 03-04 Cobra.



I considered the 03-04 Cobra. I considered the '02 T/A WS6 and Camaro SS too. My final selections were an 03-04 Z06 or the GTO. The Z06 is the obvious winner for performance, but the GTO was the winner for interior comfort and ride quality (it IS a daily driver). They are all high-performance cars, but the Cobra and F-Body lacked the interior refinement that the GTO and Z06 have. The GTO is certainly not a car for everyone, but it is the one for me (until I can grab a C6 Z06 ).


EDIT = According to the time in your signature, your LT1 will take many GTO's (stock ones easily). That coming from a GTO guy.

 

I only took it out once so far this year since I did my h/c/fast install this spring. My best was 12.817@110 with a 2.1 60. This weekend the Vig 3200 is being installed and I'm planning on having it at Norwalk for Pontiac Nationals Aug 4-6 so we'll see...but it won't give me anytime to practice with the new stall. That private rental in Sept is when I really expect to see what I can do. By the way I'm just down the road in Macedonia.

That said, only 4 NA 2004 GTOs have broken into the 11's (that I know of) and I should be d*mn close. The day I went to the strip I beat all the LS2 GTOs I went against, a 2004 Magnacharged GT0 and a Procharged 2004 only bettered my time that day by .1, although we didn't run head to head. The F-bodies that were there were a couple of a tenths faster then me but they all had torque converters. Some camed only 2004's were running 13.0X On the worse side we had some almost stock 2004s barely break 14. So that should give you all a good idea of where the LS1 GTO runs....well at least on that day.

Also I'm not saying these supercharged GTOs that were at Norwalk represent the best as a maggie in Florida is running in the 10's and a procharged one also in Florida is I think at 11.1X. These are both 2004's also. So the range on what a GTO will do is pretty wide depending on the car and driver. I think that the same can be said for the LT1/LS1 F-Bodies.

 

it's slow for what it costs??? are you kidding me?

how much was one of these in 2004?


considering I've raced 3 of them and never lost, shouldn't the owners be horribly disappointed in how "slow" they are for the $40K they spent on them?

The LS2 GTO is a bit faster than a 2002 LS1 f-body....and the SS and WS6 could cost OVER 30 GRAND when optioned out....i guess those are all slow too.

where do you get this stuff?


this much we agree on...but how exactly did you make the jump from that to this?

please.... YOU'RE going to talk to ME about bias?

do you live your life a quarter mile at a time?

don't say "you guys"....I have absolutely no problem with an LT1 beating an LS1/LS2. My only problem is with people like you that simply don't like something and thus dismiss it as a "piece of crap". THAT shows your ignorance.

not terribly. I'd say anything quicker than a 12.90 @ around 106-107 would be a generally quicker car than a stock LS2 GTO and anything trapping 110 or more could be counted on to outrun one from a roll EVERY TIME.

Anything in the low 13 range at a slightly slower speed, MAY or MAY NOT beat one in a street encounter, depending on drivers. available traction etc. You simply can't take a 13.30 car and make the blanket statement that it's "faster" (or "quicker" for that matter) than a stock LS2 GTO.

There are plenty of '05s that have gone quicker and faster in totally stock form. It depends on which one you happen to run across and who's driving it.

considering the first model year of the LS2 goat emerged after the last model year of the Terminator, it would SEEM that the boat was never in port was it?

I looked at some used '03-'04s. I didn't like the fact that they were rattletraps inside, had a noticeably stiffer clutch and were able to be modded to 500+ RWHP and then returned to stock without the owner leaving any evidence of it.

simply not the car for me.

In short, my issue is NOT with LT1 vs. LS2....it's with GTO vs. CANTONRACER

 

isn't your LT1 car running 11.75@115 with h/c/i, suspension mods and a 150 shot???
what about your 60's, what about your wheel/tires selection

 

what in the world does living in FL have to do with anything??
anyway if u GTO owners seen 10 different civic SI running 15.1@89 would u say that is a real world number for what the avg driver runs??
what i am trying to say is that all the GTO i have seen run bottom 14@100. so the avg runs just that.

line me up with one, daytona area.
till then, STFU u car is slow for having 400 hp

 

dude is that a serious question? what does living in florida have to do with it? it's 100 god damn degrees down there right now, not to mention humid as all hell.

cars (all cars) run like complete *** in a florida summer climate.

I guess because all YOU'VE seen is 14.0s out of them in that **** air....that must mean that's what they all run right?



uh huh.....keep reassuring yourself.....

Normally I'd NEVER make fun of someone else's car, but the fact that you're talking a bunch of s**t with a high 12-second NITROUS car is funny on it's own.

the bolt-on only Z28 I sold last year ('98) went nearly a full second quicker on MOTOR with a STOCK head/cam/intake LS1 and a 275/40/17 drag radial....

stop talking like you've got some kind of killer....

 

i know my car is slow. and the only reason i am talking **** to u is because u ask for it.
and laugh at urself now cuz i seen these GTO running 14's in Fargo north dakota. can u get any colder??


i am gonna try and make this simple for u. at that track in the same weather i run 13.4's@101. on avg.
i understand why u come in here all upset, **** i would be too if i had a 6.0 LS2 and ran 14's.

 

how do you figure?

uh huh....i guess EVERYONE that's gone 12.90s-13.20s in a stock '05-'06 MUST all be part of a giant GM-backed conspiracy to make people believe the car is really faster than it is...

perhaps nobody in bumf**k north dakota knows how to drive worth a damn?

how many GTOs could possibly be up there? 2? 3?

like i said, keep reassuring yourself...

bottom line is, my s**t is faster than your s**t and that's all there is to it. Maybe not quicker (due only to my mediocre driving skill), but faster for sure....I'm being completely serious when I tell you I'd eat a 101 MPH car for breakfast on the street. I've beaten faster than that on a number of occasions.


Im finished with this childish crap now, have a nice day.

 

Something tells me that there are not nearly enough GTO's in the state of North Dakota (much less Fargo) to quantify an accurate average of what the GTO does. Although GTO production was not that high, I doubt that a substantial percentage of the 04-06 production run resides in North Dakota.




It is now time for deductive logic with Professor Strychnine. In my only run with the GTO (which is stock) at a drag strip, I laid down 13.4 @ 105.8. You are averaging 13.4's @ 101 with your Z28. We are looking at the same times, with me having a higher trap speed. That should tell you that my GTO has the potential to get better times if the idiot behind the wheel was a skilled drag strip racer, hence the people that can get theirs into the high 12's. Your Z28 reaches 101 mph in 1320 feet, and my GTO reaches 105.8 in 1320 feet. The obvious conclusion is that the GTO is accelerating faster. On the drag strip I am slow, the car is not.

I will not speculate why the GTO's you see are running 14's. I think there are a few vids of 14's and 15's out of GTO's floating around out there. How or why that happens, I do not know. I do know that mine runs better than 14's, and I also know that mine is consistent with the average established by ls2gto.com's member base.