Is this the $9k 355 longblock? How does it run?

 

$9000 for a 355 longblock, DAMN!!!! I thought they we're talking about strokers. As you can see in my sig I have a 383 and with good parts, 4340 everything, coated everything and mine is less that $9000. If it costs that much it better make a TON of power.

 

9-14K? Bee hives, and not even a plug in the timing cover for a e-wp.

 

I think it's time to throw some

in this thread.

You girls feel better now?

 

Damn Bret...you've been having a rough week on the forum. That ego is taking a hit!

To the original poster;

As far as my built LT1, I sourced parts online and had a local builder put it together. I almost got sucked into the AP Engineering fiasco parts and motor wise. Missed getting screwed by like a month.

Whom ever you decide to have build your motor, just be forewarned that it will go well past any deadline you set. I've yet to see a machine shop hit a deadline. (Yes I am stereo typing them and I'm sure there are exceptions)

Good luck with your buildup.

 

No Bert, that's not high performance engine assembly lube.

Not quite the response I was after, but certainly one I expected. The direct inquiries about your real experience and accomplishments get tough, so your response is a reference to a feminine hygiene product?? Class act

If you're going to throw that into the thread, I hope you saved some for yourself - you need it more than any other apparently underachieving self-proclaimed expert in the e-world. At least what you parrot from other boards and sources, and quote here as an original thought or as the result of some vast & successful experience you have, is somewhat helpful to most, but this one really lets some of your impressionable young followers down.

Now, are you going to post some back-up to your numerous claims, or was that the extent of your engine building/performance resume? Does Vagisil now have a racing team?

This isn't the first time your qualifications and experience have been requested, without a response. Now's your chance to silence the critics that so easily offend you...the stage is yours....

 

Talk to Bret Bauer.

Rich

 

Actually I had been avoiding adding it all up—and I suggest others avoid it for their engines as well (or at least don’t do it in front of the wife!) if they think $9K is crazy. Stuff adds up.

Sticking with GM heads, LE3+cores and you’re out about $2K. I know many who have spent a lot more than that on LT1 heads so that’s certainly not out of this world. For aftermarket heads, add their casting cost to that.

Then cam, pushrods, studs, guideplates, rockers, chain, Morels, etc, using good stuff that’ll add up to another $1.5K or so. Now you’re down to $5500 left for the shortblock.

Decide on a Canton pan, ATI damper, Fidanza flywheel for around another $1K and you only have $4500 of your original $9K left. And you haven’t even started on the shortblock yet!

Add in a couple extras (say Cometic head gaskets, block core, etc, for a couple examples off the top of my head) and you’re below $4K for the shortblock. That’s not out of line for a build like this. Anybody who thinks so really needs to get out more.

Those numbers are just approximates off the top of my head (like I said, I was trying to avoid this) but it should give you guys an idea of how things add up. It’s even worse when you break each down into all the little <$100 items you don’t even think about. Keep track of them all, add them up in the end and you might be in for a surprise. Does all that stuff just grow on trees for you guys? I know many get by with cheaper parts but mine’s nothing exotic. Start talking aftermarket heads, shaft mount this, offset that, etc and you had better budget accordingly.

I could have saved a ton of money by reusing more of my old parts (flywheel, damper, pan, chain, chain cover, block, lifters, etc, etc, etc) but elected to replace/upgrade for a couple reasons. If you reuse all that stuff you’ll save quite a bit.

Much of the “extra” cost put into this build isn’t going to add much power, but longevity and peace of mind. I’ll put more hard track miles on this thing in one day at the track than most will in years. This is where the extra prep work, attention to detail, quality of machine work, etc, should pay dividends.

 

I’ve only had it in the car a couple of weeks so I’m just beginning to get it tuned.
First, judging the worth of an entire longblock on an exterior $100 bolted on part is quite foolish if you ask me. Secondly, an electric waterpump would be a cooling downgrade for my use.

 

I guess this doesn't sound like such a bad deal, then...and they'll work with you on a different cam as long as they can get thru 50 state emission testing...All high quality stuff and it includes installing it in the car, dyno tuning, etc...Its basically the same package I've been running for 12 years..It ain't cheap, but its still kickin'...

http://lingenfelter.com/pack_cf1992_383.htm

--Alan

 

I just spent ~$1,200 on block prep for a mild BBC build up.
The invoice isn't in front of me, so the numbers are~, and you could spend a lot more.

Resize and index lifter bores $300
Install main caps $150
Line bore and hone mains $275
Hone cylinders $100
Cam bearings/installation $60
Main caps $300
Main Studs $50

A "sportsman" quality shortblock for NA is gong to start in the $5,000 range and go up from there. This one is all of that and I already had a crank and rods. And it is only sportsman quality. If I were building a high rev or boosted motor, it would be more. You have to compare apples to apples or the whole discussion re: cost gets out of focus pretty quick.

Rich

 

Well I guess we are going to have to wait a few days for that rash to clear up.... I heard that stuff takes some time to work.

Hmmm considering that I have one car in Hot Rod this month with one of my cams, and another one the cars in the same issue taking out a TSP cam and putting mine in to keep the same power but improve the drivability the old ego is just fine thanks. Man this ignore list of mine gets bigger everyday.

Well now that the entertainment is over with in this thread.... ANYONE can take some good hints from Alan on his build. A motor lasting 13 years is pretty dam good. I can't say I have done that, but I haven't been building them for that long. Hell the only motor I've had bad luck with was one with that off brand heads (cough, cough) and cam in it.

I think it's pretty obvious that I'm not looking for motor offers here.... Jon is a good customer and I wanted to build that one for him, because it's what I would have built for myself if I had a LT motor in my car. Simple and effective for the money and the purpose of autoXing and taking out on track days. I think there was almost a grand spent making the oil system bullet proof on his motor just to make it 100% durable. 315 R compounds all the way around the car makes you very aware of that.

BTW Rich, those prices are dam good! Indexing the lifter bores on a BBC is a smart idea! Those things can be all over the place on older blocks.

Bret

 

Going along the theme of what you need/how much you should spend, Bret's post is insightful. He's talking about a motor he built for a specific purpose and there is more to this than just selection of parts. I am not saying that by spending more you will automatically get more. Or, even more to the point, that you will get something more suited for your needs. But there is a reason, probably many of them, that the Lingenfelter motor previously referred to lasted so long. Sticking to block prep, I am sure they went through the block and checked/corrected a number of production tolerances. What is good enough for OEM levels of longevity at 275hp for 13 years is not necessarily good enough for 13y at 440+hp.

You can't compare shortblocks by thinking the cheapest unit with the same parts is the "best". That's why those eBay specials are something to stay away from, in general. I know what engine components cost. You can get pretty close by looking at Jegs or Summit and subtracting ~5-7%, if you'd care to do the exercise. If someone is charging you a couple of percent more than the price of the parts for a complete assembly, they are skimping somewhere. Besides the obvious - sloppy assembly, those kinds of deals often cheap out on the "little" parts. Every single part that is not named in the description will be the cheapest available. And if the part is named but not fully described, you can be sure of the same thing. For example, a set of Clevite "P" mains costs ~$30 while the "H" is ~$70. If one of those eBay specials at an astonishingly low price touts "Clevite main bearing set" without specifying, there is every chance you are going to get the P. And that's assuming it's a Clevite bearing at all.

BTW: I am most definitely not dissing Victory Racing. I have corresponded with them and they are good people to deal with. It's clear from the different packages they offer that they aren't trying to convince anyone they are selling something for nothing. Golen is an unknown to me, other than that they have been around for a while (a good sign). What I am saying is this: it is foolish to compare shortblocks (or any other engine assembly) by looking at a list of parts, seeing they are "identical", and deciding that the lower price represents the best value. I have torn apart one of the eBay specials and besides the issue of the parts alluded to above, the assembly was HORRIBLE. I am no John Lingenfelter, or even a Bret Bauer. But I know that if a piston manufacturer calls for 3.5-5 thousanths clearance and the pistons are rocking in the bores at 10-12, that short block was no bargain. In fact, it had to be completely rebuilt.

Back to block prep - the amount that needs to be done for a pro-class build is sufficiently extensive that unless class rules dictate it, it's better to start with a Dart or equivalent aftermarket block. Even with such a block, at least a grand or so in prep is needed before it's ready to bolt together. It isn't wasted money, at times, starting with a $2,000 Dart block and putting another $2-3G into preparation. So, just don't think because you are buying a shortblock with "forged everything and splayed caps" for $3,500 that it's the hottest thing out there and will last forever regardless of abuse. It may be just fine if it's just a heads and cam setup for street strip use. But if it's going out on a road course and going to be at WOT for 50% of 15 laps and shifted at 7,000rpm every couple of weeks during the season, something more is needed. Ditto if it goes to the strip with a 300hp nitrous shot. Do you think the pros are wasting their money when they spend what they do on a motor? Or even a serious, experienced sportman racer? No, we aren't that stupid.

And another thing: politics aside to the extent that I am able, the more of the cheap offshore components you decide to use, the more meticulous the building process needs to be. No matter how little people in Shanghai work for, a $500 4340 Chinese crank is a lot more likely to be out of spec than a $2,000 piece from Callies. Both need to be checked, but you better check the Chinese job two or three times and it's a lot more likely to need some fiddling to get right. If the total price of the shortblock is $2-300 more than parts with a 5% markup cost, how closely do you think they inspected that crankshaft?

Rich

 

Very good post Rich - I completely agree.

 

Thanks - I am in the rant mode. Up too early, too much caffeine

Rich