cmroSS97

i think the last bre/le 383 car made about 428 rwtq.......fwiw

NightTrain66

Well I am just now stumbling on to this thread so here it is . . . . . . . .

If you purchase EITHER ONE, you will be pleased. The only way either shop can satisfy someone is by buying their product. AI customers will never be pleased by me and LE customers will never be pleased by AI.

The better set up car with the better 60 ft will ALWAYS run a better time at the track wether it is AI or LE heads. The small difference in power between the two heads will NOT be the deciding factor in wether the car is fast or not. I think my heads are 10 HP better and I am sure they feel theres are 10 HP better. Until we have a back to back comparison with a HEAD change ONLY, we will never know.

I am game for this and even though I usually stay out of these internet things, when I see the same comments made by the same people, it gets me fired up and willing to offer again.

anyone . . . . . . anyone? I am willing to "let em hang" so everyone can see the real difference.

I would LOVE to have a set of my heads on Ricks car. Anyone that thinks that it is the AI 190 cc heads that are making the car so fast can probably find a couple of AI cars with these heads in another 3600 lb street car that is NOT running in the 10's if you look hard enough. If EVERY 3600 lb street car running these heads was running Ricks times, I would obviously feel the AI head is a few steps above. I doubt if these results are the "typical" results for a street car with this weight and a hyd roller cam as some would lead you to believe in this thread.

Ricks car is a ROCKET but I think his 1.2X 60 ft and willingness to spend the $$$ along with his knowledge of how to get the the car this fast is the reason for the results. Until I get a set of my heads on that car, we will never know. Anyone have a phone # for Rick?

Does my stuff cost less, yes.

Is it inferior, no.

I have offered to do a back to back comparison (head and intake change ONLY) and see the reults on the dyno and track. This would PROVE the difference in how well both sets of heads work.

I offer head and cam packages for EACH customer that works for what THEY have. As soon as I get a customer with a trans brake, 1.2X 60 ft, solid roller and attention to detail like Rick has, I will show you a ET similar to his. Give me a customer with the "average" 1.7 60 ft in a 3800 lb (with driver) street car with typical mods and I will show you a high 11 at 118 MPH. AI will have similar results in the SAME car.

Less weight, better 60 ft, more attention to detail = better ET.

Lloyd Elliott

Chopstix

well said.....

matt65

I wonder if we could get this comparison test between AI and LE on PINKS?

Chopstix

which car would get the 20 lengths

matt65

LOL NIETHER....... I hate that crap!

SS MPSTR

Sponsorship through me? Now that's laughable. I don't think so - I just responded to this thread requesting input and you've turned yet another one into a pissing contest...although I'm not sure what you're pissing about....do you, other than the fact that I'm an Ai customer? You're not upset because there is obvious doubt about your strong suggestions of being the best cam specifier around, are you?

Is Ai here selling anything? I haven't seen Ron or Phil post anything here lately promoting their services.

Did I hit a nerve with the sponsorship issue? Well, I just assumed since you're a world-wide engine builder (you did say at one time you had engines all over the globe, right?) and cam specifier, you could afford to have your own shingle out rather than ride the coattails of others. If you're so great at what you do (I mean, you wouldn't be in business if the cam companies did their job specifying shelf grinds, right?), why don't you list the racing teams or motorsport organizations you provide services for? Surely someone with your talents and technical savvy has a resume a mile long for services rendered to teams, or some other endorsement, that represent the pinnacle of the sport, no? Post 'em up and prove me wrong.

Wow, I should just cut my wrists and end it now

Since this thread started with requests for 'opinions and experiences' with either the Ai stuff or the LE stuff, I'm just as qualified as you to opine in this instance, as well as a few other threads. If you have an issue with my posts, don't read them. I skip yours regularly.

I'm not a cam specifier (just an enthusiast who can afford to participate in the sport to some degree) and will humbly admit that you talk the cam talk way more effectively than I do, but this is not what I do for a living either (I haven't the time or inclination to peruse other technical sites and regurgitate the info thereon). That's why I consult folks like Harold Brookshire, Phil @ Ai and Jeff Creech. You may be qualified at what you do, but one thing (among many) that appears to separate you from them is that they are not in here engaged in a meaningless internet defense campaign against an attack that doesn't exist, and none of them share your arrogance - thankfully, not even Lloyd.

For the record, I've never made a disparaging or negative remark about Lloyd's work, in writing or while speaking. I'm finished with responding to you in this thread. If want to continue this nonsense, take it to PM.

Back on topic, I voted Ai, but neither produces a product you won't be happy with.

Joe B

IMO...Very true about the CNC heads... alot of guy's don't seem to understand that on factory cast heads (with loads of core shift) where theirs not lots of additional port material for an ideal port for a specific application, a one fits all CNC program while very consistant from port to port "can" IME fall slightly short of what "could" have been attained by a very skilled and talented hand porter that understands a particular casting and the exact situation it's being used for....It has NOTHING to do with price in not going with CNC'd heads(it's totally preference for many)......I have had several sets of both CNC'd heads and those that were done by hand by a guy that specialized in a particular casting truely understanding every in and out of them...In my situations the hand ported heads in all cases made slightly better power(with factory castings)......after all, the CNC program comes from a replica of a hand ported head.......and for those that made comments that AI's (or any) CNC'd heads are basicly on a "night and day" higher level than a near perfect handported set of heads....keep in mind, 99% of AI's even higher flowing, higher horsepower potential stuff is "all" done by hand....All Intakes, LS1, LT4, Trickflow castings, AFR castings Ect....and trust me , NONE of they're (or Lloyd's) hand ported head offerings take a backseat to a CNC'd version head....it's just alot more work to do things by hand.......

trymy6

Wow, this has got pretty ugly fast. I appriciate all the responces that actually pertained to information on both of these setups. I wasn't trying to start an AI vs. LE war, just looking for some input on a head/cam package. Thanks again

street demon2k3

trymy6- yea we know this wasnt your intention but it usually always ends like this. but you should try and look around some to see what might be better for your budget and setup. you cant go wrong with either since they both offer great service and a well proven package. but i propose this to see if it could happen:


i think that within the next year or so there should be a shootout between all LT1 cars that have setups from LE/BRE, AI, TEA, GTP, Joe O. etc.... should include a limit on car weight, stock or ported intake, hyd. roller cam, and anything else you can think of to eliminate variables. since there are a good number of cars that already have these setups it would be nice to see what they can do on the same day. like was said before nevermind the numbers and how much the setups costs, we'll let the results speak for themselves. im pretty sure there will be a lot of people who would like to see this happen.

Joseph Overton

Brett is just a regular John Wayne isnt he? brett i never seen someone so diligent in trying to persuade the young unwise enthusiasts how great you think you are... Thing is Brett you have nothing better to do but spout genre on the internet, for out of these 100's of cams you've sold ..Its hard to fathom not one was considered track worthy... So reality check I had cars running cam only,cam head 5 years ago that you are just starting to accomplish. Though your lil dyno comparison is purely by your word () hello god() Just what have you done? comparing your many custom cams to 3 basic cam selections I designed over 5 years ago... whoah you da man.. As I said once before as anyone here thats been here awhile following the Le camp knows You took my old ideas and made them better supposedly..KUDO's But hey Brett you didnt start from scratch either did you. I got proof everywhere even in the ls1 world... you have cz28 and the many you like to preach your infinite wisdom too... hey if the cam business slows down ..I'd say you would be a hell of a used car salesman...I'm glad I don't know what you know... my engines wouldnt last and i surely wouldnt be where I'm at..

Oh and AI rules.....

firetird

has anyone ever done a max effort LE setup that is similar to Ricks, Ai car? Real question, not trying to add fuel to the fire.... or should i say inferno?

SStrokerAce

Joe, glad you came out from under your rock. That challenge still stands with you. Same car or motor I don't care I haven't seen anything that you do better. FWIW you can keep thinking that I used your "ideas" to start from. What were these miracles of camshaft ideas that you invented? It's not lobe shapes, it's not valve events, it's not E/I% none of these basic things were ever your "idea" in fact i've never seen you come up with an original thought, much less a modern one. What I actually did see was suprisingly far off from what works the best. I'd love to know how your down 30 ft lbs peak and almost as much in average if they worked so well?

Why don't you get out and start tweaking on your car a litttle more because from the looks of it Rick's car is making as much power as yours with a lot less.... (I don't know if I beleive that, but who am I to question it) you can keep resting on your name and car to sell anything, because I've never seen any knowledge come out of you ever in terms of anything valvetrain related other than when I call you out and you pretty much have nothing to say other than to bad mouth me. I'd love to have a real conversation with you about it, but it never has happened before when I called you out and it's not going to happen again because when it comes down to the details of this you flat out don't understand them, if you did you might be able to prove me wrong. Might being the key because I would have to be wrong first. FWIW I don't consider where your at to be much of anything other than the top of a small pile.

Bret

Javier97Z28

Not that I've seen on the forum.

Most that I have seen are 3200 stalled or 6spd cars, mail order tuned, full weight cars.

My car is going to stay full weight but is going big stall and 12 bolt with 4.?? gears next year.. I might shed some weight from it, not sure yet. I'm willing to trailer it to get a dead on tune at some point.

SStrokerAce

20hp is not a little, and most guys do use stones to do part of the VJ after the Serdi cut....