For the very reasons you mentioned, it is difficult to compare the performance in and of itself of a 'head to head' comparison (pun intended). We all know that flow numbers, in and of themselves, mean little. Why do cars with heads that 'only' flow 270cfm sometimes outrun cars with heads that flow 300cfm? The answer, as you know, has as much to do with the rest of the combination and the perserverence to get it right.

 

Send me your credit card, and I'll make it happen


Yeah, I didn't think so...

 

Wow, lots of opinions, and I can sense some tension already. Its sad, the guy just wants to see if we can help him decide which porter to go with. I told him my experiences. Some opinions, but they are obvious ones...cnc versus hand porting. If 300 dollars sways you to one porter over the other, sell your car now. High horspower is an endless money pit. You have to pay to play. Like I said, AI may cost more, but look what you get. Consistency across the board. Every port is the exact same. Every valve lap is the exact same. Nascar or F1 quality here. Does NASCAR or F1 hand port their heads? I dont think so! If you are on a budget, definately go with lloyd. There are way too many people having awesome results with his product to think he isn't very good!
But, If you want a head that is cut by the computer to ensure years of service, AI is your beast. After talking to Ron, it seems like the people they cater to more is the corvettes and to the older generation. People who have been here, done that. Now they want the best money can buy. I bypassed all that learn on crappy stuff first, and went straight to the best.

 

I think this would be a very interesting comparison

 

Have to understand, im nuetral. All in all I could care less if it does or doesnt because my heads are on the car already and they arent coming off because the other brand made 10rwhp more. I just think it would be intresting and it may help just a little when threads like this pop up.

 

So what about the cams in the comparison? Does the fact that one of us has experience and OTOH it's just cookie cutter specs make a difference? The same machines cut the cam lobes so you can't make the "Like I said, AI may cost more, but look what you get. Consistency across the board. Every port is the exact same. Every valve lap is the exact same. "

Bret

 

I agree... I'm willing to pony up the valvetrain on my end... problem is Ai will live off the rep that they are "better" because a few guys say so, so to risk that "rep" is not in their best interests. That's why this will never happen. Lloyd is considered the "other guy" to them, but he's always willing to put it on the line anytime, FWIW I don't think there is anyone who can out do me in cams (fast car or not) and I'll put my *** on the line anytime, I think Lloyd feels the same way and I don't blame him.

Bret

 

Interesting. So let's say in the instance where we were to bolt both sets of heads to the same engine, removing "the rest of the combination" as a variable that could possibly skew the true performance data of each respective head, what variables are we left with to consider?

Okay. So if flow numbers aren't that important in judging a head's performance, what is?

 

The same way you measure camshafts, not by specs but by results, power numbers or drag times... but I would say that engine dyno numbers is the real key.

Bret

 

Are you saying that you are better than AI when it comes to cams?

 

Anybody, I'm not afraid to go up against anybody, ever. They can be included in that if you want. You give me the same car, motor, dyno or track and I have no problem going head to head, especially with these street hyd roller setups. You can go outside of that box as well if you want.

Bret

 

Most perfromance professionals realize that rwhp dynos are nothing more than a tuning aid in most cases. However, some performance shops use these numbers to sell the product to uninformed customers that only want peak rwhp bragging rites. Others may use the engine dyno for the same purpose since neither dyno can predict how the car will actually run on the track.

And I think we've been down the road of off the shelf cams with both heads. 847 cam with LE2 heads was 390ish rwhp. Ai heads went 400-410rwhp. Ai cars also went faster at the track with these similar setups. (I can list specific cars/people, but it would just get nit picky)

(And there was no disrespect intended toward loydd or you, just the facts that they do different work)

 

Thats a pretty bold statement, and a hard one to prove right or wrong. What is it you know that Joe O and AI don't know about?

 

As far as I see it, as an outsider... That doesn't have either companys' package, and would like either one...

It seems to me that people are just getting irked because they like Lloyd and think he's a nice guy. So you have people getting pissed off and defending him like he's getting beat on or something.

When you consider a CNC job to someone doing it by hand... where is the real argument? Because he's nice? That's good, and AFAIK his package is cool and really affordable. Everyone that has one is happy with it. But if someone says it's not the best out there, why argue about it?

 

I swear do a search. This happens everytime a thread like this is made and everyone says the same thing. It's crazy.