Potential could go both ways:

It could be a success...but then the real fans would have to deal with the ricer punks at car shows or whatever.With the Fast and the Furious movies the Camaro would be the blame for street racing/deaths.It could also be the butt of all jokes with the mustang/camro/muscle car crowd and hurt sales.Sales would probably drop off due to the bad publicity associated with the type of people who would buy it.
It could be a failure and a waste of time,money and resources for GM and be cancelled in 2 years like the Iron duke cars were.

It's the association with the ricer crowd was what I was trying to get at with my posts and that it is just plain wrong to begin with.I'm sorry that I don't agree with this idea for the Camaro but it would have been a good idea with another car.

 

The 911 Turbo is not an inline and it is not a 4 cylinder.

 

HEhe! Me too.

I've been reading this thread, and finally can't take it anymore - I've gotta post.

The first thing to understand is that this site caters to a performance crowd - period. Everyone here probably owns V8 versions of their beloved car, be it Firebird, Camaro, Mustang, or whatever. We made this purchasing decision on our own merits - 'nuf said about our free-choice favorites. Now as for "the other models"... let's be like big boys and girls and put on our thinking caps for a minute.

The last F4's were the fastest ponycars on the road. They still died.
Speed alone DOES NOT SELL. What part of that don't some people understand?

BINGO! Z284ever is spot-on here. Red Planet too. Not only was the iron duke available, but it sold VERY WELL. The first 3rd gen I ever sat in was a 4-banger. The I4 mustangs from '79 to '93 outsold the V8 by a healthy margin - like 2 to 1. If you really want the exact sales stats, I'll post 'em when I get home - don't have them at work. That's where the volume comes from, like it or not. And if you don't want volume, you won't get your car back anyways, so either accept it, support it, and get ready for your V8 option, or fuggedaboudit - the whole Camaro model. Especially so at GM where the Corvette already is locked in as your limited production V8 RWD sportscar. There's no room for 2 like that.

And KUDOS to Z284ever on another level... the Turbo Mustangs are among the most sought after fox-bodies for collectors today. The early '82-'83 Turbo GTs are bringing premiums over V8 cars, and the SVO's are going ballistic in collector value, hitting the mid $20's for pristine cars. The collectors after these cars want something different, something other than a V8 and stripes like every other GT or LX on the road. They offer a twisted, european, slightly exotic flavor to a purely American model car. Would it really hurt Camaro's image to have some limited edition cars that could bring desireability/collectability at some level other than V8 rumble... methinks not.

Lastly, the first Mustangs in '64 and the first Camaros in '67 offered basic I6's that were misers, bulletproof, and trustworthy as hell. You could fix anything on them with a 1/2" wrench and a coathanger. They were also the lowest CI, lowest performing engines available - used in cars that were intended and marketed as sporty compacts - not land-missiles. Both models offered V8s and big HP, but their bread and butter were the basic I6 engines. (Ford didn't even offer the I4 at all until 70, and the first came in the German built and imported Capri. The 2.0L came out in the Pinto in '71, and the first I4 in a Mustang came in '74 as the 2.3L-2V, and stayed 'til '94. The car was actually designed to use that engine for the economy. GM's history, I don't know so well.) So for those of you who don't think any I4 belongs in a "musclecar" model (Camaro, Mustang, or any other), you need to rethink your position. These cars were born with the smallest HP engines the companies had available, they were cheap, economical, and had appeal to everyone - non-racing, non-gearheads included. They sold like the dickens because of it, and that is exactly why these cars are as popular as they are even today.

I'm all for offering a unique and maybe even "special" or limited edition turbo-I4 Camaro! If it does attract the Honda and Nissan guys... so what! Heck I think that'd be great, they have money too ya know?
And for all you big LS1 guys with lids, NOS, 6-speeds, and $1000 stereos that think V8's are the only engines and your crap don't stink... Once you get your **** handed to you by a guy with a turbo4, dial-a-boost, and a fuel system, please send me a letter explaining how the crow went down... was it grilled or fried?
Doesn't ANYONE recall the "mini-van dad" around here...
I seem to recall his site has a specific Mpeg of him doing an LS1 car by about a second. And Lord knows he had the aerodynamic advantage in his minivan at over 100mph too.

'nuf said.
I'm with you all the way Charlie. I hope your thread has at least got some guys thinking anyways!

 

OK Darth...you got me.

But I just want to explore ways to make the Camaro more appealing to more people. Just adding more and more power....alone....won't quite do it either. We need incredibly good looks, great quality and refinement......and something to "hook" new people. Even people who don't buy Camaros...still need to like them. It's that whole image thing.


I'm going to let you guys in on a little secret.

SHHHHHH. Don't tell anyone, but.........Some people actually look down on us because we own Camaros. OH YES! IT'S TRUE! THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE!
Just the same way that some here may consider anything that is, Foreign/Domestic/Different/ FWD/IRS/non-V8/Turbocharged as "RICE".

Yes boys and girls....Camaro could use an image make over. And alot more people need to "want" a Camaro.....some of them have to actually buy one too.

 

That wasn't what I was percieving in that post at all.Just an idea to make the Camaro attractive to new buyers not..oh boy..speed speed faster faster grunt grunt crap.Maybe it was a ludicrous idea but all I was saying was that GM could sort of like pre-modify if ya will,the cars with aftermarket stuff.Nothing major but little things like brakes,ignition or whatever or at least have the option to do so.It's for when peope order their car to have these things in their cars.The option list would have to be limited though because it could get/be rediculous.Some cars do come with aftermarket stuff,like the '03 Cobra.

 

I agree 100% that those are things guys like us want to see on the cars - no doubt about it. But a large percentage of folks who would by Camaros and Mustangs are females and/or nerds that will never mod their car in any way, and never have it over 80mph either. They just don't care about V8s, or mods either, but there are lots of them out there and they DO have money, and they DO buy cars.

We can get a whole lot more sales if we broaden the appeal of the car at the BOTTOM end of the performance spectrum, than enhancing the top - that's all I'm saying.

Now, GM could help out the top-performance sales too if they would design the next car to be easier to work on/mod (as in not going through the glove box to change the #7 and #8 plugs, or removing the windshield to take off a valve cover). So yes, they could definitely make the enthusiasts a happier guy too. But the returns on that kind of investment dollar will pale next to the returns of marketing a unique lower-level unit to an entirely different crowd - like a turbo 4 could do.

Your point is well taken, but see my side too.

 

Let me tell you something I know "z28forever" personally and if there is anyone that LOVES camaros it's him.

 

...and adding a s/c 4banger would sway/improve other's perceptions of us?

thanks for the scoop

 

I do see your point but I just think that it could have been done with a V6.

 

I did apologize.

 

Doh! WTFWIT (what the f--- was I thinking?!?!)

 

The purpose of a 4 banger would be to get in more people to buy cars. If you haven't noticed the "rice" crowd has moved in on this hobby and is slowly taking over. If you are worried about the fart cans, huge wings and Camaros being "riced out" that happens today. I wish you guys would get over with this debate of "V8 is better than 4 banger". If any of you "enthusiasts" have any clue you would see that these ricers are blowing away your beloved Camaros everyday. I think that most ricers are ignorant, but they are the ones that buy alot of cars and really help this hobby to keep going. The whole idea is to have a model of Camaro to cater to everyone and I don't think that is a bad idea. The mustang has a model for every type of person, and a mustang that fits in everyones budget. Thats why the Camaro failed, among other things.

 

Sorry I just tuned in.

 

I have a problem with several of your points:

1) Noone is saying every Camaro should be a V8, so don't put it forth like that. What we (or at least I) am saying is that a V6 is more appropriate for this application.

2) I do not believe that the "tuner crowd" are "the ones that buy alot of cars and really help this hobby to keep going" ... They buy mostly USED cars... sure, some buy new, but no where near the majority.

3) You use Mustang as a successful example... well, where is Mustang's 4-banger?!?!?!?

 

Remember, I'm not saying the turbo4 should REPLACE the V6 - I think that would be all wrong too. I have said many times that I am for the V6 as the STANDARD for the base unit.

My position - in this thread anyways - is to endorse Charlie's idea about OFFERING SOMETHING DIFFERENT. The turbo4 could be marketed in the Camaro lineup just as the SVO or turbo GTs were in the Fox lineup, right with the big V8s and the other base units. It could bring additional - and sorely needed - attention to the cars from folks who would otherwise pass it up. It is up to GM to decide if it is cost-effective and capable of being done though, not us.

FWIW, given the attention and money that tuners are putting into 4-bangers these days, I'd kinda like to see Ford put out another "SVO" or turbo GT - I think they'd sell like $.25-hotdogs. They are doing it with the Focus, but I'd like to see them offer something to the "rice" crowd in a Mustang too - heck they are ricing them anyways, why not cater to them? Anybody notice the Mustang that got squished in 2F2F? He!!, I was just happy to see a Mustang get screentime in that flick (regardless of how bad it looked. ). THAT alone will sell some Mustangs, I feel sure, and the more they sell the better IMO.