IMO, a V6, like Mustang has, offer a better 'performance image' than a 4-cylinder, supercharged or not...

I would be one of those buying the V8 Camaro, and the only way a 4-banger would stop me from buying the V8 model would be if somehow the base Camaro became some crazy fart-cannon wannabe bling bling car and that image reflected on me as a V8 Camaro driver...

I want nothing to do with that crowd, and I don't want to be associated, in any way, with that crowd.

If a 4-banger were offered, would that image develop? I don't know the answer to that... it is at least possible...

 

 

Very well put Darth

 

That is a good point, but I don't think we would see many "fart can" Camaros, most of the fart can cars seem to be FWD econoboxes that are 5 or more years old, you don't really see any V6 4th gens with fart cans so I don't think you would see any 5th Gen. Do you think there will be a lot of fart can Solctices? Do you think there would be fart can I5's?

 

That made me laugh. I just pictured some ricer revving his car and the sounds "fa*faar*faaaarrrrrrrrttttt*" emanating from his/her 6" exhaust.

Honestly though, every make has (at one time or another) had a bad stigma attached to it (redneck, yuppie, ricer, girly, etc...). Are we all redneck for driving American v8's? No, not all of us.

A 4 banger may or not be good for the Camaro when compared to a well-built v6. Personally, the SVO mustangs happen to be some of my favorite Mustangs. The car outhandled Euro cars costing 3 times as much, and had the straight line acceleration close to that of the much larger 5.0 v8. It was truly an attractive package, and a 4 banger can be an attractive performance package if done and executed right. Btw, i'm not suggesting that the 4 banger cost more than the z28 as was with the case of the SVO's and 5.0's. I'm saying that a 2XXhp 4 banger may not be a bad start or a bad base engine (i still wouldn't buy, even if it was discounted).

I doubt that the fart-cannon wannabe bling-blingers would care for a camaro be it I4 or v8. I'd think that they’d mostly stick to imports and sport compacts which suites their image, bling bling lifestyle, and personal tastes much better. That isn't going to change just because of the addition of a S/c 4 banger. To them, it’s still a camaro (translation: Another car they couldn't care less about). Would most of us dump our american v8's for Toyota/Nissan/Honda just because they too have come out with a v8 sports coupe? I think most of us wouldn't.

 

Fair enough... and great point! A S/C'd I4 very well may not appeal to this segment.... but... if it doesn't... why are we going down this road at all?

The supposed whole idea of offering this type of engine would be to grab a new group of enthusiasts to bolster the Camaro 'base car' sales.

If the car doesn't appeal to the "Tuner crowd", who is it going to appeal?

It just seems like an experiment doomed to fail. It could grab the "tuner crowd" and alienate by association, a lot of the anti-ricer group.

If it doesn't appeal to the "tuner" crowd, then it has failed.

I don't know that a 4-banger base Camaro is going ot draw buyers from other segments such as 4-door family cars, minivans, trucks, or SUV's... at least anything worth mentioning.

The Camaro (as the Mustang is) should be the Anti-Rice It should stand up and be proud of what it is and build on it.

I still feel very strongly that the traditional Camaro formula works. It just needs to be on a high-quality, modern platform with marketing support and dealer excitment.

A V6 does more than an I4 would for Camaro, IMO. If you want to do the S/C thing, fine... but do it on the V6.


FWIW, I usually agree with Red Planet on just about everything he says... on this issue, though, I respectfully disagree, and hope I can put forward a valid counterpoint.

 

Darth, i agree with you. I don’t think GM should cater a Camaro to the “tuner crowd”. I could see why you’d think this would lead to the camaro becoming another civic (and becoming popular with the ricers).

I’d personally wish for the base engine to be a small sub-250-270hp 4.XL v8, but economics wouldn't allow that. A 6 is the other nice solution.

I think that a well built v6/I6 would be better than a 4 (blown or not). Even the archaic 3.8 isn't bad with a S/c thrown into the mix. Now a S/c'ed 3.8 wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

They wouldn't use the current 3.8 because by the time the Camaro comes out, that engine will be on it's way to being replaced...........I believe.

 

I've heard...Is the 3.9L pushrod its replacement?

 

Well put Darth! The idea of a Camaro with a fart-can and multi-level wing makes me shudder. I've already seen a few 6 cylinder 4th gens around here that have gotten the "rice" treatment. Sad. The pricing of the car would slot it directly into the category with the WRX, SRT-4, and other cars like these. Those are exactly the kind of cars that you see all decked out with tacky bodykits and 7" fart cannons. Hoping that the car doesn't appeal to this crowd is wishful thinking imo. I do agree that a rwd car sporting a blown 4 could have appeal, just don't call it Camaro. Let the Solstice or something else slot into that segment.

I don't think that the Camaro will ever be a high volume car again. With platform and component sharing it makes it more feasible to produce a car that doesn't sell 150k units a year. In other words, maybe we don't need to appeal to everyone. Don't get me wrong, the Camaro does need to find new buyers when it returns, but it doesn't need to bridge all segments and classes to attract everyone. Let's not over-extend ourselves. Performance car first, everybody's car second. I truly hope that GM can find a way to make a business case for a lower volume Camaro. And that is exactly what I want, a Camaro. I don't want a WRX, SRT-4, Mustang, Civic, Vega, 350Z, RX-8, etc. I NEED a Camaro. If we don't get a true Camaro, what's the point....


-Mike

 

Well, maybe I should have rephrased the question.....but I really wanted to aim at center of mass with a direct question, to see what the reaction would be on this board. I'm sure this is one of the most anti-4banger sites on the internet....and yet over 14% of YOU would buy.


I don't really know if an Ecotec in a Camaro is ultimately a right or wrong move.....but I know it would be good if more people liked Camaros. The same people that currently would never consider a Camaro. And yes the very same people who "look down" on Camaros.

Sooo, how do you do that?


And regarding this cliche' that four cylinders = Rice......please spare me. You wouldn't believe how many riced out 4th gens I see. What does that mean? I also see so many beautiful RWD I4's. What does that mean?

Anyhoo.......I was really hoping that we could have had a more objective debate on this.



BTW...Is there a full moon out tonight? Red Planet and I are in complete agreement.

 

4 banger would only be a ploy to cater to the ricer market. I say "hell no".

 

I never said 4 cylinders = rice. I said it could lead to a ricer image, something I have ZERO deisre to be associated with in any form. And I even said I honestly don't know if that would happen.... but it COULD happen.

A 4-banger adds fuel to that potential fire. "Tuners" favor 4-bangers to V6's.

As for "Riced-Out" 4th gens... I have seen a couple, but they are few and far between. No where near like the amount of "riced-out" 4-cylinder cars... Eclipse, Talon, Civic, Cavalier, Focus, Corolla, et al.



How can you hope to have an objective debate on a purely subjective topic??? "Would you but a Supercharged EcotechCamaro for $20k" is the title!

 

After reading past discussions on here about what is considered rice, I feel some people have quite an overreaching definition of the term.

I4 Turbo RWD does not equal rice. Not all foriegn/turbo I4 enthusiasts are ricers.

Some of you said it would not appeal to ricer market, so don't do it. Some said it would, so don't do it.

Make a business case for less sales? In my view you're painting yourself into a corner there. The same 'ol crowd can't carry a new car....

Z284ever....Good job bringing in some controversy...I love it. If you had said Supercharged V6 you would've gotten a heck of a lot more support I'm sure. But I think you may also be right in saying that it might not be able to be done for <20,000.

I myself voted that I wouldn't buy it, but obviously I wouldn't be against it. The "real deal" cars would always be the SS and Z28. Anyone who bought a Tubo Eco IMO would always be eying those cars to move up into. Voila, RWD V8 enthusiasts...

Good discussion...I'd love to hear other serious ideas to bring new faces to Camaro.

 

This, is certainly the potential upside of that scenario!

Yes, it COULD happen that way as well.

Quesitons though:

Would a S/C'd I4 be any cheaper than a N/A V6?
Would a S/C'd I4 draw a bigger crowd than a N/A V6... or just a different crowd?

Mustang seems to do OK with a V6....