View Poll Results: Would you buy a 230 horse S/C Ecotec for about $20K?
Yes. It would be cool, cheap and hotroddable.
16
19.75%
No. I don't care how cool, cheap and hotroddable it is...no 4 bangers.
65
80.25%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll
Would you buy a supercharged Ecotec Camaro for $20K?
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 244
From: Your rear view mirror...
A four cylinder in a Camaro? Heyall naw!! I don't care if it puts out a thousand horsepower, NO! As for everyone talking about the blown 6cyls...why not just put the 4.3 from an s-10 in there? I have an S-10 with this motor, and its VERY impressive. I have 31 inch all terrains and I can still spin em
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,610
From: Cincinnati, OH
Originally posted by Z284ever
I don't know Chuck!, call me slow...but I believe that I have missed your point.
Are you saying that the only way that we can prove we are not 4th grade "edumacated" mullet heads is to take import drivers for a ride and show them the LS1 is faster from 0-60 than a 1.8L Civic. Ummm.....don't you think that they already know that?
Everyone that buys an import (in fact most that buy them new), isn't some dipsh!t ricer. I'd bet some of them are actually car enthusiasts that know what they are buying. And those who aren't enthusiasts, know what they like....and that's what they buy.
And now we have become so clever that we can arbitrarily decide which segment should not be compelled to buy a Camaro in order to protect some undefined reputation.
BTW, what is this reputation that we need to hold and protect from the so called "ricers"? And why would a fresh influx of new customers hurt the Camaro?
I don't know Chuck!, call me slow...but I believe that I have missed your point.
Are you saying that the only way that we can prove we are not 4th grade "edumacated" mullet heads is to take import drivers for a ride and show them the LS1 is faster from 0-60 than a 1.8L Civic. Ummm.....don't you think that they already know that?
Everyone that buys an import (in fact most that buy them new), isn't some dipsh!t ricer. I'd bet some of them are actually car enthusiasts that know what they are buying. And those who aren't enthusiasts, know what they like....and that's what they buy.
And now we have become so clever that we can arbitrarily decide which segment should not be compelled to buy a Camaro in order to protect some undefined reputation.
BTW, what is this reputation that we need to hold and protect from the so called "ricers"? And why would a fresh influx of new customers hurt the Camaro?
It's not about excluding anyone from our missing teeth club, its about educating them on what a bone-***-stock fbody does. GM didnt do a good job getting the word out, so a possible fix is to stuff a 4 cylinder in the car? No, you make it the same damn way it always has (aside from the duke which most of us try to forget) and you let the people know whats up. Is Toyota putting a 4 cylinder in the Supra? Nissan in the Skyline? They're adding cylinders to the mix, and some of you want to move the other way? Sick.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by Chuck!
Yep, totally missed my point. They know their cars are slower, but how many of them have ridden in an FBody? Im sure you could count that on one hand. Serious, go find someone, take them for a ride and beat the hell out of it. Park the car and see if they dont get out grinning ear to ear. Try it.
It's not about excluding anyone from our missing teeth club, its about educating them on what a bone-***-stock fbody does. GM didnt do a good job getting the word out, so a possible fix is to stuff a 4 cylinder in the car? No, you make it the same damn way it always has (aside from the duke which most of us try to forget) and you let the people know whats up. Is Toyota putting a 4 cylinder in the Supra? Nissan in the Skyline? They're adding cylinders to the mix, and some of you want to move the other way? Sick.
Yep, totally missed my point. They know their cars are slower, but how many of them have ridden in an FBody? Im sure you could count that on one hand. Serious, go find someone, take them for a ride and beat the hell out of it. Park the car and see if they dont get out grinning ear to ear. Try it.
It's not about excluding anyone from our missing teeth club, its about educating them on what a bone-***-stock fbody does. GM didnt do a good job getting the word out, so a possible fix is to stuff a 4 cylinder in the car? No, you make it the same damn way it always has (aside from the duke which most of us try to forget) and you let the people know whats up. Is Toyota putting a 4 cylinder in the Supra? Nissan in the Skyline? They're adding cylinders to the mix, and some of you want to move the other way? Sick.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,313
Give them a ride, and you still won't sway the majority. Most already know f-bods are fast/faster.
It's just the whole loyalty/prefrences thing (which most of us here have too). A lot here wouldn't be caught dead in an import regardless of how good or fast it is. Take that and multiply it by 4, and you have the typical import driver. Give them a ride, and they'll applaud the acceleration and diss the handling, weight, ergonomics, quality, styling, etc....They also have this perception of american cars as being low-tech, gas guzzling, garage magnets too. A ride alone will not change these perceptions.
Import guys for the most will stay import. For that reason, i don't think GM should specifically cater to such market when the product in general wouldn't appeal to them anyways. They should stick to their core/regular buyers (v6 and v8 enthusiast).
I hang around a lot of import sites and guys, and this is true. I really think import buyers are a lot more discriminating than us. If you want to attract such market, let the ION Redline, Cobalt SS, or some other GM sport compact do that. The camaro doesn't need import buyers, and import buyers (generally speaking) don't need/want the camaro. The Mustang seems to sell well (best selling sporty car), and i don't see Ford trying to cater mustangs to the 4cy import guys. Ford just caters to their usually core market, and the F-bod should do the same.
It's just the whole loyalty/prefrences thing (which most of us here have too). A lot here wouldn't be caught dead in an import regardless of how good or fast it is. Take that and multiply it by 4, and you have the typical import driver. Give them a ride, and they'll applaud the acceleration and diss the handling, weight, ergonomics, quality, styling, etc....They also have this perception of american cars as being low-tech, gas guzzling, garage magnets too. A ride alone will not change these perceptions.
Import guys for the most will stay import. For that reason, i don't think GM should specifically cater to such market when the product in general wouldn't appeal to them anyways. They should stick to their core/regular buyers (v6 and v8 enthusiast).
I hang around a lot of import sites and guys, and this is true. I really think import buyers are a lot more discriminating than us. If you want to attract such market, let the ION Redline, Cobalt SS, or some other GM sport compact do that. The camaro doesn't need import buyers, and import buyers (generally speaking) don't need/want the camaro. The Mustang seems to sell well (best selling sporty car), and i don't see Ford trying to cater mustangs to the 4cy import guys. Ford just caters to their usually core market, and the F-bod should do the same.
Last edited by RiceEating5.0; Aug 3, 2003 at 01:47 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by RiceEating5.0
Give them a ride, and you still won't sway the majority. Most already know f-bods are fast/faster.
It's just the whole loyalty/prefrences thing (which most of us here have too). A lot here wouldn't be caught dead in an import regardless of how good or fast it is. Take that and multiply it by 4, and you have the typical import driver. Give them a ride, and they'll applaud the acceleration and diss the handling, weight, ergonomics, quality, styling, etc....They also have this perception of american cars as being low-tech, gas guzzling, garage magnets too. A ride alone will not change these perceptions.
Import guys for the most will stay import. For that reason, i don't think GM should specifically cater to such market when the product in general wouldn't appeal to them anyways. They should stick to their core/regular buyers (v6 and v8 enthusiast).
I hang around a lot of import sites and guys, and this is true. I really think import buyers are a lot more discriminating than us. If you want to attract such market, let the ION Redline, Cobalt SS, or some other GM sport compact do that. The camaro doesn't need import buyers, and import buyers (generally speaking) don't need/want the camaro. The Mustang seems to sell well (best selling sporty car), and i don't see Ford trying to cater mustangs to the 4cy import guys. Ford just caters to their usually core market, and the F-bod should do the same.
Give them a ride, and you still won't sway the majority. Most already know f-bods are fast/faster.
It's just the whole loyalty/prefrences thing (which most of us here have too). A lot here wouldn't be caught dead in an import regardless of how good or fast it is. Take that and multiply it by 4, and you have the typical import driver. Give them a ride, and they'll applaud the acceleration and diss the handling, weight, ergonomics, quality, styling, etc....They also have this perception of american cars as being low-tech, gas guzzling, garage magnets too. A ride alone will not change these perceptions.
Import guys for the most will stay import. For that reason, i don't think GM should specifically cater to such market when the product in general wouldn't appeal to them anyways. They should stick to their core/regular buyers (v6 and v8 enthusiast).
I hang around a lot of import sites and guys, and this is true. I really think import buyers are a lot more discriminating than us. If you want to attract such market, let the ION Redline, Cobalt SS, or some other GM sport compact do that. The camaro doesn't need import buyers, and import buyers (generally speaking) don't need/want the camaro. The Mustang seems to sell well (best selling sporty car), and i don't see Ford trying to cater mustangs to the 4cy import guys. Ford just caters to their usually core market, and the F-bod should do the same.
What I got from Chuck!'s post was, however, that there are a lot of clueless folks running around who do think that "VTEC" is some magically engine device that makes them faster than anything out there... a good portion probably don't even know what that means.
A lot of people line up on the street against a Z28 or T/A and honestly think they are gonna lay the smack down on the 'dinosaur Camaro or Firebird"... and some even probably think the actually one with the "ricer flyby" when they flip on the hazzrds 5 seconds after the Z28 driver let of the throttle.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Chuck!
It's not about excluding anyone from our missing teeth club, its about educating them on what a bone-***-stock fbody does. GM didnt do a good job getting the word out, so a possible fix is to stuff a 4 cylinder in the car?
It's not about excluding anyone from our missing teeth club, its about educating them on what a bone-***-stock fbody does. GM didnt do a good job getting the word out, so a possible fix is to stuff a 4 cylinder in the car?
And the word was out....whether GM got it out or not. Sure everyone knew F-cars were fast. They also knew they were very old, had a live rear axle, stale styling, low end interiors and were larger than their parents SUV's.
Oh...and for most of these people, the V8 models were unreachable, from an initial purchase and insurability point of view.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by Z284ever
That's still not going to make anyone buy one...or not too many anyway.
And the word was out....whether GM got it out or not. Sure everyone knew F-cars were fast. They also knew they were very old, had a live rear axle, stale styling, low end interiors and were larger than their parents SUV's.
Oh...and for most of these people, the V8 models were unreachable, from an initial purchase and insurability point of view.
That's still not going to make anyone buy one...or not too many anyway.
And the word was out....whether GM got it out or not. Sure everyone knew F-cars were fast. They also knew they were very old, had a live rear axle, stale styling, low end interiors and were larger than their parents SUV's.
Oh...and for most of these people, the V8 models were unreachable, from an initial purchase and insurability point of view.
... and even with all of these further reasons.... a 4-cylinder engine is the savior?
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Darth Xed
... and even with all of these further reasons.... a 4-cylinder engine is the savior?
... and even with all of these further reasons.... a 4-cylinder engine is the savior?
Maybe it's not the Ecotec......what is it then?
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Originally posted by Darth Xed
... and even with all of these further reasons.... a 4-cylinder engine is the savior?
... and even with all of these further reasons.... a 4-cylinder engine is the savior?
a 240HP S/C ecotec, should draw in some different customers and be faster than most 3rd Gen. V8 cars.
Saturn races a 315HP turbo Ecotec, This could be a very hot rod able engine, THe only way it should make it into a camaro is if it puts out better HP #s than most V6s
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
I like Red's suggestioon of a factory-warrantied, dealer installed turbocharger or supercharger to be available to the base car... I just think you are so much further ahead by applying these good ideas to a base V6 rather than 4-banger...
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Darth Xed
I like Red's suggestioon of a factory-warrantied, dealer installed turbocharger or supercharger to be available to the base car... I just think you are so much further ahead by applying these good ideas to a base V6 rather than 4-banger...
I like Red's suggestioon of a factory-warrantied, dealer installed turbocharger or supercharger to be available to the base car... I just think you are so much further ahead by applying these good ideas to a base V6 rather than 4-banger...
Tell me why, though.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 244
From: Your rear view mirror...
Originally posted by Z284ever
Hey, I'm open to suggestion. What Camaro variant will be cheap to purchase, cheap to insure, very hotroddable, with factory and aftermarket support...and have an engine that GM is planning to really turn up the wick on.
Maybe it's not the Ecotec......what is it then?
Hey, I'm open to suggestion. What Camaro variant will be cheap to purchase, cheap to insure, very hotroddable, with factory and aftermarket support...and have an engine that GM is planning to really turn up the wick on.
Maybe it's not the Ecotec......what is it then?
I also think that if Z/28's and SS's are made together, the SS should have more of a performance edge over the Z/28, and the Z/28 an edge in handling...ya know, like in the good ole' days!
That's what I think GM should do! And it's not a bad idea, is it?
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
Originally posted by KwikistZ
The base Camaro should be a 4.3 liter V6 RS. That would be awesome! Its a V6, which intern means, better mileage, insurance is low, and its got enough power to rip apart GT's
I also think that if Z/28's and SS's are made together, the SS should have more of a performance edge over the Z/28, and the Z/28 an edge in handling...ya know, like in the good ole' days!
That's what I think GM should do! And it's not a bad idea, is it?
The base Camaro should be a 4.3 liter V6 RS. That would be awesome! Its a V6, which intern means, better mileage, insurance is low, and its got enough power to rip apart GT's
I also think that if Z/28's and SS's are made together, the SS should have more of a performance edge over the Z/28, and the Z/28 an edge in handling...ya know, like in the good ole' days!
That's what I think GM should do! And it's not a bad idea, is it?