I'm gonna use your post to answer alot of points brought up since I posted this yesterday.

Americans may want V8s today.... but now post your livelihood, your job, and Camaro's future on what Americans will want in 2008 with the prospect of gas at $5, $6, or more (remember, if this car doesn't do well, the name dies permanently).

When laying out final plans to a new car, you are actually predicting what will happen 2-5 years into the future, not looking back to the distant past or even what's happened the past year. The best way to predict the future is looking at current trends.

There's alot that points to a mid-level, high output, IRS, Camaro with an DOHC V6 being a runaway success. Mustang is pulling quite a few people from the hi-tech crowd with just a cammer V8. A high output cammer V6 with IRS may pull alot of G35 fans (as well as those who worshipped Supras and other high tech imports of last decade) that don't have G35 money.

Finally, how many people lined up to get a base 4th gen Camaro Z28 at 22-24K??? How many did that compare to the higher priced Z28 (24K+) and even the SS?

Point? Anyone here who has a 4th gen Camaro SS sitting in their yard has no grounds to complain about the lack of a mid level V8 model, since you're part of the statistics that determined the profile of the V8 Camaro buyer.



Next issue, again, price.

Besides all those loaded Z28 and Camaro SS buyers that skewed GM's research to the point where it showed a mid-priced V8 Camaro would be a flop, who said anything about price? Discounting inflation (which will surely send the price over 30K), in today's dollars, the Camaro V8 is going to be priced below the GTO. GM believes the GTO should be around 30 grand in today's dollars. That would mean a loaded Camaro SS should be in the upper 20s, right along with (or slightly above) the current Impala SS.

Wild guesses on price?

Base Camaro a few hundred over a base Mustang, ~$20,000.
Starting price for the mid level Camaro, under the price of a Mustang GT, ~$23-24,000. Very fair for a 300+ horse car with IRS and top drawer quality. Compare to the $32K price of the G35 coupe.

The cover charge on a V8 powered Camaro SS? A little over a Mustang GT, ~$26-28,000.
An extremely fair price for a large, RWD, IRS, 400+ horse V8 powered missile.

 

The power and pricing sounds great to me!!! Now I'll be watching the mpg factor and possibility of alternative fuel...

 

Ok, while matching what the Mustang is doing V6 wise is great, and no doubt GM can do it...but will Ford and GM be fighting a HP war that no one is willing to pay for?
300hp and RWD is still a scary thought for the number that will be sold. And I think that 300hp V6 for a base model Camaro, while powerful, will most deffinatly be too much.
But then again, the Toyota Camry has a 270hp V6 and the Avalon a 280hp V6, so I could be totaly wrong across the board.
As for Camaro with a 3.6 at below 25k? No way in hell. There is no car in GM's line up that has a 3.6 combo for below 24k. There is no car out there sold that has a hi-po V6 making over 260hp, for under 25k. So unless GM found a way to make this engine very cheaply, Im not getting my hopes up.

 

Nor should anyone else. I'll even bake my own crow pie if it happens. Then again, I would be eating said pie in my $22k, 320hp HFV6...so it might not taste too bad!

 

I wonder what the 3.6 G6 will go for? Anyone have any pricing info?

 

Guy, on the Challenger

Have you heard anything on it getting a 392 HEMI? I know that was the rumor going around when the crate 392 HEMI was shown at SEMA. Also, production numbers...are they shooting for constant 20k production for years to come? I thought that once Chrysler got any bugs worked out on the prodcution line, and maybe the new LY chassis, that they would offer more drivetrain options?

Just found this Allpar.com artical. According to that artical that Chrysler is looking for 50k production Challenger. Does this artical contradict with what your hearing, as far as Challenger production?

 

The 3.6l HFV6 is the bread and butter engine (i.e. base engine) in Holden's product line.

I have to admit that I don't understand why GM would make this the base engine in Australia when it's the premium engine here. I suspect it has to do with the fact that the HFV6 is built there and the HVV6 is not. But then why not build the HVV6 there?

 

Ford and GM arent the only ones drawn into this hp war. Chrystler is going to be right their also. And don't think the foreign companies arent going to bring out some car/engine combo's to go along. They may not be v8's, but I'm sure they'll have speed too.

I could see a midlevel v6 going for 22-25ish...but thinking the lower number would be a very low optioned car, no T-tops if available, smaller wheels..etc.

 

And this:


Charger SE
MSRP* starting at: $23,245
3.5-liter high-output V6 engine
250 horsepower, 250 lb-ft of torque
Five-speed AutoStick® transmission
Power windows, locks, and mirrors
4-wheel Antilock disc brakes with All-Speed Traction Control

 

I agree with just about everything on both sides of the fence here. As I said already, a 320HP V6 would be awesome... BUT... if it means that I can't get a 350+HP V8 for UNDER $30k.. well. That sucks. MY Camaro needs to have a V8, it's a deal breaker for me. I'll admire the DI 320HP N/A V6 in all of its technological marvels and will be happy that it will be at TODAY's base V8 Mustang status... But it won't be enough to make me buy one.

Basically it comes down to this: If GM can get a V8 (midlevel, SS, whatever, don't care) for under $30k, then I'm in. Having a V8 is a deal breaker to me and ALOT of other buyers. No matter how better the V6 may be than the V8 it competes against at the time, it's still missing 2 cylinders and one cool rumble. My concern is that this awesome V6 will make an affordable V8 no longer an option.

 

Just as a point of reference, there was an article on , I think, Yahoo about a week ago that has shown that the current gas price spikes have had absolutely ZERO effect on the types of engines purchased today. V8's sold in what amounted to IDENTICAL numbers of vehicles as they did before the gas prices started going up.

Also, since a lot of V8's, especially GM's, get VERY comparable milage to a V6... I really don't think this will be very true. Throw DOD on top as a possibility for this optional V8, and the difference may become next to nothing.

I'm also not convinced we'll be seeing gas prices that high, either.

Finally, even if this gas pricing does come true.... in all liklihood, a high-power V6 is going to get worse gas milage than the base V6 anyway. SO... the same effect would happen.... so the point would basically be moot.

 

No kidding....the close-minded group think of this site amazes me sometimes.....

 

Does seem to contradict what I've heard, and I don't believe it. First, you aren't going to get another 50,000 cars out of Brampton (even 20K is going to be a minor miracle). Second, Chrysler if anything tends to lowball their projected production only the Crossfire tended to hit projections). Finally, last word is that Challenger's case is based much like GTO's. Modest production numbers, moderately high price, low actual investment.

No word on if this new powerful hemi is a 392 (6.5L) V8 or if it's something else. Just that it has a higher output than the current SRT 6.1.

There will be a 6 speed manual coming to the new LX chassis, though I wouldn't expect every vehicle (ie: the 300 SRT8) to get it.

Another convert!

 

after skimming this thread rather quickly, i see a lot of bitching about price.. .. about how stupid it is to price the mid level V6 against the Mustang GT.. the problem i have is this:

in the original post i only see one mention of price, relative to the camaro:


the only comment made relating the HF V6 with the Mustang GT was in reference to performance numbers, not price:


nowhere did i see any mention of pricing the 300+hp V6 the same as a Mustang GT.. or any mention of pricing the base V8 above $30k...

where is everyone getting this bs?

 

Making it up because they like to complain?