teal98

You'd be wrong. With variable valve timing, an engine can be high strung only when it needs to be and thus, still get good gas mileage. Look at the new Lexus IS350. It has a 306hp 3.5l V6 and still gets very good gas mileage -- better than an equivalent V8 would get.

For a given power level, a V8 will always have more friction than a V6 with equivalent technology, within reasonable limits of cylinder size (you don't want a 6l V6). Since the V6 of the future (the present for Toyota) can make low 300hp ratings, the V8s will only be in cars that are above that level -- unless the manufacturer is optimizing for something other than CAFE.

I'll be impressed if GM actually does produce a 320hp V6, btw. I'm assuming it will be the HFV6 with DI and a more complicated valvetrain? At one time, the Australian buzz was that the HFV6 would go up to 3.8 liters. I wonder if that is true.

teal98

So would this stronger structure be on all models or just those above the current GT? I wonder how much heavier the new chassis will be.

Z284ever

Alot depends.

First, whose to say a 2010 Mustang will still have a 4.6? The Hurricane motor is back on, you know. It's a 6.2L.

And Mustang isn't going to be using that boat anchor 4.0 V6 forever. The 3.5 Duratec will have 265 hp for '07, BTW.


So what I'm saying is, what we may consider a "hi-po" V6 today, may be the price of admission in 5 years....although perhaps, not necessarily 320 hp.

How much will all this cost? I suppose we could take some educted guesses...but all that is being worked out. And you know that one eye is on Mustang.

eagleknight97

Whatever they want to use for a base V6 is fine with me, whatever HP they give that base V6 is fine with me. What worries me is GM possibly using a Higher Performance V6 in its lineup to possibly compete with a Mustang GT and then not letting people get into a V8 Camaro until they have passed the 30k mark. THAT would not be cool at all.

Big Als Z

Ok, so a 3.5 Duratec will make 260hp or so, and the next GT will probably be boosted to 330+hp.
I would assume that GM will bring in the HF3.6 with DI making over 300hp or so. Not only do you have to consider the Mustang, but the 350Z as well. They both are in the same high style sports coupe market, even if 350Z is a smaller and a 2 seater.
Now, Im sure we could see a the 6.0 making 370hp or so, and a 6.2 making it over 430hp, with an ubermotor to top it all off.

teal98

Of note is that that 265hp is made without DI and using regular fuel. One can imagine that a DI, premium fuel performance version could easily hit 300+, and I think Ford has said as much.

10 years ago, the luxury and performance V8s were in the vicinity of 250-300hp, and the luxury and performance V6s were 200-220. The LT1 had 275 in the Camaro, the Lexus V8 had 250. Infiniti had about 275. BMW was 282.

Darth Xed

I still strongly believe that an optional midlevel V8 would sell better than an optional midlevel V6, even if that V6 has a bit more power than the V8 that would have been offered in it's place.

These cars are all about V8's... even the people who don't have the V8's... want a V8.

Yes, on paper... what's the difference between a 300hp V6 and a 300 hp V8... I understand. (Well, besides potential torque, sound, cache value, etc that is... )

But... like we keep saying in the threads about quality: It's all about perception.

Z28x

Direct Injection is the reason the Lexus puts out over 300HP and gets good milage. I for one welcome any DI enigine into the Camaro, V8 or V6.

I'd be happy to see

225HP 3.5L VVT pushrod
300HP DOHC 3.6L V6
350HP 5.3L DoD V8
440HP 6.2L V8

That engine line up would make a lot of people happy. It will be nice to see the Camaro have a V6 that can crush the imports V6's and Turbo 4s.

DrewSG

I sincerely hope the base V8 isn't going to start over 30K, that wouldn't be cool at all. If I'm spending 30k+ on a V8 2dr, I might as well go with the GTO as it will be more "luxorious".

TQdrivenws6

I personally will go for the following setup (provided its available):

A very well optioned base car with an upgraded suspension/wheels/tires/brakes
HO V6, hopefully with DI, DoD, VVT etc
6 speed auto
In a nice LeMans blue metallic color (ala C5 Z06)

I personally think such a car would have the features necessary to pull in import buyers, both the boy racer types and the snobs who care more about valve actuation (DOHC vs OHV) than average power and fuel economy. The 6 speed auto is a must, with the power projected for such a v6 (320hp) and with the deep initial gears, acceleration will be excellent. Since the gearing is so aggressive in the lower gears, a higher (lower numerically) rear gear ratio (2.73-3.23) can be used but still get equivalent gearing through 3rd gear of a 4th gen T-56 combo.

I agree that its all about perception, but what about looking at that from a different angle. I know the v8 sound and aura is sought after, but what about technology? I think a HF V6 would certainly appeal to those that it needs to for this car to be sucessful. Camaro can't rely on v8 sales in the day and age of rising gas prices. It doesn't matter if the v8 gets similar rated mileage of a v6, fuel conscious buyers will likely not even consider a v8.

blckbrd84

Actually believe it or not, the Monaro coupe offered the supercharged 3800 for a few years in Australia as a cheaper model. The sales were not good and it ended up being cancelled.

Chris

Z284ever

Well.....what if it's not optional? What if it's the standard engine?

Darth Xed

I see what you are saying.... Base V6 Model < Optional V6 in Base Model < Base V8 Model (probably SS)...

I'm just saying I don't think lots of people will PAY for an upgraded V6 in the base model. I think they would pay to upgrade to a V8, but might not want to step up to the SS model. Make it an engine only check box on the option list for this upgrade.

Historically... non-V8 models become "throw away" cars that no one cares about... no one restores 6 cylinder cars... but, just about any V8 car gets lovingly looked apon and becomes a restoration candidate.

Granted, it'll be a long time before these cars become restoration possibilities, but the point is that people care about V8. Especially in these cars.

Look at how many people upgraded the 3rd Gen RS models from the 6 cylinders to the dinky TBI V8's! That's what I'm talking about!!

Give the people what the want.

2MCHPSI

You nailed it. A V-6 to compete with a base GT would suck for sure. Camaro would get killed in the press for doing this.

notgetleft

Thats what scares me. I just can't see the world at large, or at least the rags who will review these cars, accepting a GM V6 as some kind of great engine.

Setting a hi-po V6 up as a the mustang GT competitor sounds like an easy way to get the 5th gen off on the wrong foot. Given similar HP, odds are the rustnag will still be faster in every way, and it will still hold a "gotta have it" factor over the camaro since it will have a V8 (i can see the quotes in the rags now, "who buy's an american pony car with a V6 when the imports do them so much better?")

Even if there is a >400hp SS available at launch, rags will not compare it heads up to the GT since it sounds like you're talking a nearly $5k increase in MSRP. They'll save that for comparison to the GT500, which will also probably kill the SS, which will be mssing the SC "gotta have it" factor for ease of making obscene hp with pully/programmiong changes.

This will be a hell of a gamble by GM.