If some of the bits coming out about GTO are true, then we're going to see 2 classes of American coupes coming to market within the next few years.


Camaro vs Mustang.

Pretty much been gone over here. These 2 are made to appeal to a wide range of buyers, from V6 buyers wanting a stylish coupe with alot of value for the money. Both will have V6 engines standard, and according to Bob Lutz, the new Camaro will be priced within a few hundred dollars of the Mustang, making the base Camaro around $20,000.

Although Camaro is expected to have a version of the new 6.2 V8 as top power, there is talk of a high output mid-level V6 that in theory would give this level Camaro performance numbers on par with the pre-2005 Mustang GTs.

While Camaro is slated to get the 6.2 V8 as top power, Ford won't be standing still with the Mustang. Ford seems to be adopting the continuous improvement philosophy that drove constant changes of the Mustang of the 1980s.

Ford will be incorperating a stronger structure for 2007, with reinforcements in the floorpan and firewall area in preparation for more powerful engines in the very near future. The 4.6 24 valve V8 of the Mustang GT is scheduled for at least one substantial power upgrade before Ford switches to a larger engine in 2009. This is independent to another 2 special Mustangs planned after the GT500. One of these cars is rumored to be a version of the previous supercharged Cobra engine.

There is a super Camaro being made. Thank the "super" Corvette for creating the vacancy by "raising the ceiling". Expect it to compete with the GT500 Mustang.... in more ways than one.

It would be a big mistake to think that the next gen Camaro will have as easy time upping the Mustang's horsepower as it did with the SN95 Mustangs.



Challenger and GTO

There is no longer any question that the Challenger or GTO will be in production. Challenger is scheduled as a 2008 model, due out in just over a year. GTO is scheduled to be out a year later as a late 2009 model.

Challenger and GTO, though lumped with Camaro and Mustang by many, are infact aimed at a different market, and will be made in far fewer numbers. While Ford expects Mustang sales to eventially settle down into the 150K range, and GM expects to sell between 75-100K Camaros, Challenger and GTO production is slated to run between 15-20,000 annually.

Challenger and GTO will be luxury "Grand Touring" cars, with a high emphasis on comfort and ride as well as acceleration and handling. Both cars will be larger than the Mustang and Camaro, with more interior (especially rear seat room) than the 2 pony cars. Both the GTO and Challenger will be more expensive as well.

The Challenger will be almost exactly as the concept car. Scoops, large wheels and tires, and roll down rear windows are going to make the cut according to the word I'm getting. Headlights will be different, and the carbon fiber hood won't make the cut. The interior is going to be a bit better than the concept. Power will be a higher powered version of the 6.1 Hemi, as SRT is working on getting more power out of the powerplant as we speak (a supercharger?).

The GTO is tentatively planned to be made on the same assembly line as Camaro, although the car will not be a reskinned Camaro (by any means if word is correct). Unlike the Camaro, the GTO will have a roomier back seat, and will be generally bigger than the Camaro. Unlike Challenger and the previous GTO, a convertible is planned for later.




Monte Carlo, Monaro, "Cougar".

Save the Monaro, these cars are still up in the air as of late February.

It's known that a Monte Carlo is being discussed. It would provide the volume cover for the "large" GTO, and the Monte is one of the best selling coupes in the US. However, it's known that GM did a FWD backup plan for the next Impala in case the RWD version didn't make production. It's safe to assume that plans involving a FWD version of the Monte Carlo was done as well. Any decision on the MC is going to have to be made very soon, along with the rest of GM's large and performance car line.

The only thing known about the next Monaro is that it's going to be made here in the US. GM management went to review Holden's design lineup for Zeta almost a year and a half ago. These designs included not just the Commodore, Statesman, and a Ute, but the new Monaro as well. Design work continued to evolve while awaiting approval, and was adapted to GM-NA's Zeta (coined Zeta 2 here).

Ford is still looking at a Grand Touring coupe, and Cougar seems to be alive but on the "slow-track" to production. The Cougar will be based on the Mustang's 2DC chassis and may have a 4 valve version of either the 4.6 or 5.4 V8. It too will be slightly larger than Mustang/Camaro. However, unlike the Challenger and GTO, it doesn't seem to be reaching backwards for design, and seems like it will be aimed a little upmarket of the 2. It was once thought that the car would be a Lincoln. However, it now seems firmly a Mercury, now that Ford has comitted to keeping Mercury around.

 

Great idea for the mid-level powerplant... bad idea to make is a 6 cylinder.

It needs to be an 8 cylinder. People want V8's. Especially in cars like a Camaro.

I would think this would be so clear that it'd be a no-brainer. Whatever is the equivelant of the LS4 in the Impala SS/MC SS/ GP GXP when the Camaro comes out should be that mid-level V8 in Camaro.

 

If there were four engines, then a mid level V6 would leave room for another mid level V8.

 

True.... I just don't see a lot of budget minded buyers putting up the extra money for a higher output V6 as much as they would for a V8...

Simply being able to say "I have a V8 Camaro" should be enough.

I know when I bought my first Camaro (a 1989 5.0 RS) all I cared about was if it had a V8 or not. Granted...... that was like 15 years ago. ( ) but, still... I think it still holds water.

IMO, More people would pay extra money to upgrade to a V8 than a different V6...

 

That’s a good move in my book. American Muscle cars need to be diversified. They shouldn't all be retro or semi-retro. Keeping the Cougar modern will help draw in Import buyers who don't care about traditional American styling.


I like the idea of a high out V6 (300HP) but I also hope that it doesn't crush my dreams of a 28mpg+, 350HP+, ~$26K Camaro.

 

Sorry Darth, the V6 is in. IMO, it is a good move. A highly-featured V6 with more hp than the current Mustang GT (about the same as Mustang at debut) is just what Camaro needs to compete with the import crowd. They can't afford to do it with the base engine, so it will have to be the mid-engine.

That doesn't mean you will not have a choice of 2 V8's eventually...

 

You'll either have to give on the "factory" hp or the price by a couple of grand. Easy bolt-ons should have you there though...

 

I hope you're right, because if the only way to get a V8 camaro is to buy the SS then the car is doomed from the start. Assuming we'll have a V8 powered Z28 too or some other approximation of the 4th gen lineup with a Hiperf V6 insertered in the middle. (I hope!!!)

 

I would love for a forced induction v6 to make it into Camaros mid level engines.

I think the big downfall of the current GTO is, outside of the GTO name on it, they didnt offer the supercharged 3800 as a lower priced option. I think many GP owners and pontiac enthusiasts of the 90' would have gladly jumped at it for the RWD and pricing with that engine.

 

Sounds horrible IMO. I agree with the need for a midlevel V8. We don't need a base V6, Hipo V6, a 30+grand 6.2, and then a super Camaro. And there is no way they'll ever slate 5 engine choices in this car, so in my mind, that's already bad.
I think a lot of other people would agree with me that a 5.3 V8 priced around 26k would be a better idea. I think this car just deserves a midlevel V8.
You want import buyers? Try it in another car. Say a Monte?

 

Well, yes and no. SS will be the only way to buy a V8 at launch. That doesn't mean there will not be another V8 option soon after.

There's your hint for the day kiddies

 

I sensed that hint from a previous thread...z28 maybe to debute in the cars 2nd year...

 

What if you could get an Ecotec in the front that drove the front wheels, and one in the back that drove the rear wheels? That would have eight cylinders...

 

So does this mean that the higher output V-6 will be priced similar to the current V-8 Mustang GT?

 

Not the current Mustang GT, but maybe the 2009 Mustang GT. Pricing is not really even close to being set.