Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
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From: Oakland, California
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by number77
... within the last week the whole 5th gen section has become filled with everyone and their mom's opinion on what they think we will get in the future...
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From: The Golden State
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
I just want to touch on 2 issues, then I gotta get back to work (never get anything done when I come here ).
First, I think you guys that are cursing GM and would swear off GM for bringing out a car without the Camaro name needs your heads examined. You have no idea what this car will look like, have no idea how quick it will be (and it WILL be quick!
), or anything else about the car, but some of you are acting like whining kids!
I like Camaros as much as the next person, and I've heard more mindless pro-GM anti-Ford venom than I'd ever begin to try to count. Yet, Chevrolet is set to bring out a "Kick-***" performance coupe driven by the correct wheels, complete with LS2 power at a decent price, and instead of at least a "Great job, now what about Camaro", there's plenty of "It's a piece of crap because it's not called 'Camaro'" mentality going on. Unbelieveable!
Second, Who on earth said there wasn't going to be a Camaro??! There seems to be a mentality going on here that there can't be 2 or more coupes in a single auto division. There can. It's a matter of where you market the cars and who towards.
Some bright bulb called Monte Carlo a "Turd". However, that person is unaware that the Monte Carlo is the 2nd best selling coupe in the US (Mustang is 1st). That means that Monte Carlo is selling well, despite the current body being old (7 years & counting) in a market segment that depends on frequent new designs. Last I checked, GM was a business. Last I checked, successful cars are the cars people wanted. Monte Carlo isn't what I'd buy, but it is successful. Case closed.
Chevrolet is also making the Colbalt coupe, including an SS version. A small performance car. The Monte Carlo and Impala are getting a mild restyling with major improvements in quality & noticable improvements in performance if word on the 5.3 V8s holds up.
GM has mentioned that they will be moving to RWD in a big way. At the same time, it seems that GM's Zeta line is coming into focus. It's been beaten to death that Zeta is a flexible chassis, and it is engineered to be assembled on the same line. When you are a company like GM, that has to make it's money on volume because you have multiple divisions and related employees to pay & pension, you don't have the money to gamble on sudeen changes like Ford & Chrysler can do. That's why Zeta is going to be phased in.
Impala & Monte Carlo (as GM's W cars) will be likely continue production till they're phased out, while running along side the Zeta coupe & sedan, by most accounts due here within the next 36 months. Zeta aparently is intended to replace the W's, but in typical GM fashion, the new & the old will overlap.
The Zeta coupe will be financed over at least 3 and probally FIVE divisions. If it wasn't for that, there wouldn't be a way to finance the car. This car is NOT Camaro.
However, there IS a Camaro in the works. The name has no issue in all this.....PERIOD.
The issue is the definition of Camaro. There are people who don't want Camaro stuck on any old thing (though it's apparent, some people here don't feel that way), so the "keepers of the flame" want a small sporty coupe that will be smaller than the upcoming Zeta coupe.
Camaro is most likely going to be a sole car.
Camaro is not going to have extremly widespread appeal (as say a "Chevelle coupe" would.
Therefore Camaro will have to be inexpensive to produce & be able to be made on a existing assembly line.
Camaro is stuck between a rock & a hard place because it won't be a big production vehicle (regardless as to what some fanatics say, Camaro all studies seem to indicate that the Camaro name alone isn't going to sell the car), but has to be relatively low priced.
Going into speculative mode (with a few items based on true bits):
*Camaro is likely to be based on the Zeta. It's not going to share the same body designation. It will be an "F-body". The GTO-Chevelle-Monaro will be something else.
*Camaro would be considered a "niche" car. As such, it would probally be designed or developed by a small group separate from the normal design process (studio). Team Corvette is still technically tied to Camaro, and GM still has something that resembles a "Team Camaro". It's not at all farfetched that there is a small group working on Camaro now that Corvette is done.
*Camaro seems still on for it's 40th anniversary. The Zeta car now seems that it isn't it, yet the car would have to be in final stages of development.
Summary:
1. You people cursing GM for not naming the next RWD V8 coupe "Camaro" aren't doing yourself any favors (to coin someone else's term ).
2. Anyone who doesn't think there isn't room for varyingly different coupes in a division as large as Chevrolet isn't thinking large enough.
3. Camaro isn't likely to be developed with the rest of the Zeta line. It's most probally going to be developed by a small special group.
4. GM-Holden has nothing to do with a new Camaro, despite developing the next Monaro & GTO. But it seems they are aware GM-NA is creating a derivative of the Zeta.
5. I'm still being assured there will be a Camaro for it's 40th, so I'm still going with it.
).First, I think you guys that are cursing GM and would swear off GM for bringing out a car without the Camaro name needs your heads examined. You have no idea what this car will look like, have no idea how quick it will be (and it WILL be quick!
), or anything else about the car, but some of you are acting like whining kids!I like Camaros as much as the next person, and I've heard more mindless pro-GM anti-Ford venom than I'd ever begin to try to count. Yet, Chevrolet is set to bring out a "Kick-***" performance coupe driven by the correct wheels, complete with LS2 power at a decent price, and instead of at least a "Great job, now what about Camaro", there's plenty of "It's a piece of crap because it's not called 'Camaro'" mentality going on. Unbelieveable!
Second, Who on earth said there wasn't going to be a Camaro??! There seems to be a mentality going on here that there can't be 2 or more coupes in a single auto division. There can. It's a matter of where you market the cars and who towards.
Some bright bulb called Monte Carlo a "Turd". However, that person is unaware that the Monte Carlo is the 2nd best selling coupe in the US (Mustang is 1st). That means that Monte Carlo is selling well, despite the current body being old (7 years & counting) in a market segment that depends on frequent new designs. Last I checked, GM was a business. Last I checked, successful cars are the cars people wanted. Monte Carlo isn't what I'd buy, but it is successful. Case closed.
Chevrolet is also making the Colbalt coupe, including an SS version. A small performance car. The Monte Carlo and Impala are getting a mild restyling with major improvements in quality & noticable improvements in performance if word on the 5.3 V8s holds up.
GM has mentioned that they will be moving to RWD in a big way. At the same time, it seems that GM's Zeta line is coming into focus. It's been beaten to death that Zeta is a flexible chassis, and it is engineered to be assembled on the same line. When you are a company like GM, that has to make it's money on volume because you have multiple divisions and related employees to pay & pension, you don't have the money to gamble on sudeen changes like Ford & Chrysler can do. That's why Zeta is going to be phased in.
Impala & Monte Carlo (as GM's W cars) will be likely continue production till they're phased out, while running along side the Zeta coupe & sedan, by most accounts due here within the next 36 months. Zeta aparently is intended to replace the W's, but in typical GM fashion, the new & the old will overlap.
The Zeta coupe will be financed over at least 3 and probally FIVE divisions. If it wasn't for that, there wouldn't be a way to finance the car. This car is NOT Camaro.
However, there IS a Camaro in the works. The name has no issue in all this.....PERIOD.
The issue is the definition of Camaro. There are people who don't want Camaro stuck on any old thing (though it's apparent, some people here don't feel that way), so the "keepers of the flame" want a small sporty coupe that will be smaller than the upcoming Zeta coupe.
Camaro is most likely going to be a sole car.
Camaro is not going to have extremly widespread appeal (as say a "Chevelle coupe" would.
Therefore Camaro will have to be inexpensive to produce & be able to be made on a existing assembly line.
Camaro is stuck between a rock & a hard place because it won't be a big production vehicle (regardless as to what some fanatics say, Camaro all studies seem to indicate that the Camaro name alone isn't going to sell the car), but has to be relatively low priced.
Going into speculative mode (with a few items based on true bits):
*Camaro is likely to be based on the Zeta. It's not going to share the same body designation. It will be an "F-body". The GTO-Chevelle-Monaro will be something else.
*Camaro would be considered a "niche" car. As such, it would probally be designed or developed by a small group separate from the normal design process (studio). Team Corvette is still technically tied to Camaro, and GM still has something that resembles a "Team Camaro". It's not at all farfetched that there is a small group working on Camaro now that Corvette is done.
*Camaro seems still on for it's 40th anniversary. The Zeta car now seems that it isn't it, yet the car would have to be in final stages of development.
Summary:
1. You people cursing GM for not naming the next RWD V8 coupe "Camaro" aren't doing yourself any favors (to coin someone else's term
).2. Anyone who doesn't think there isn't room for varyingly different coupes in a division as large as Chevrolet isn't thinking large enough.
3. Camaro isn't likely to be developed with the rest of the Zeta line. It's most probally going to be developed by a small special group.
4. GM-Holden has nothing to do with a new Camaro, despite developing the next Monaro & GTO. But it seems they are aware GM-NA is creating a derivative of the Zeta.
5. I'm still being assured there will be a Camaro for it's 40th, so I'm still going with it.
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Posts: 2,428
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by guionM
...cut...
its also interesting the way you worded it.
instead of a camaro/firebird for chevy/pontiac we might have a chevelle/gto chevy/pontiac
and Camaro on its own.
Last edited by number77; Nov 2, 2004 at 02:28 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Guy,
I remember some time ago (back when the name was re-trademarked by GM, etc...) that you were very certain that the "chevelle" rumors were totally unsubstantiated, and just and "internet rumor"... have you now changed your position on this?
Just asking, because this is the first time I can remember you talking Chevelle...
Back during that time frame, I had heard a few things about the nameplate from my very limited sources, but you very strongly dismissed the idea (not that that upset me or anything... just curious)
I remember some time ago (back when the name was re-trademarked by GM, etc...) that you were very certain that the "chevelle" rumors were totally unsubstantiated, and just and "internet rumor"... have you now changed your position on this?
Just asking, because this is the first time I can remember you talking Chevelle...
Back during that time frame, I had heard a few things about the nameplate from my very limited sources, but you very strongly dismissed the idea (not that that upset me or anything... just curious)
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by guionM
......Impala & Monte Carlo (as GM's W cars) will be likely continue production till they're phased out, while running along side the Zeta coupe & sedan, by most accounts due here within the next 36 months. Zeta aparently is intended to replace the W's, but in typical GM fashion, the new & the old will overlap.
The Zeta coupe will be financed over at least 3 and probally FIVE divisions. If it wasn't for that, there wouldn't be a way to finance the car. This car is NOT Camaro.
However, there IS a Camaro in the works. The name has no issue in all this.....PERIOD.
However, there IS a Camaro in the works. The name has no issue in all this.....PERIOD.
The issue is the definition of Camaro. There are people who don't want Camaro stuck on any old thing (though it's apparent, some people here don't feel that way), so the "keepers of the flame" want a small sporty coupe that will be smaller than the upcoming Zeta coupe.
Camaro is most likely going to be a sole car.
Camaro is not going to have extremly widespread appeal (as say a "Chevelle coupe" would.
Therefore Camaro will have to be inexpensive to produce & be able to be made on a existing assembly line.
Camaro is stuck between a rock & a hard place because it won't be a big production vehicle (regardless as to what some fanatics say, Camaro all studies seem to indicate that the Camaro name alone isn't going to sell the car), but has to be relatively low priced.
Therefore Camaro will have to be inexpensive to produce & be able to be made on a existing assembly line.
Camaro is stuck between a rock & a hard place because it won't be a big production vehicle (regardless as to what some fanatics say, Camaro all studies seem to indicate that the Camaro name alone isn't going to sell the car), but has to be relatively low priced.
Going into speculative mode (with a few items based on true bits):
*Camaro is likely to be based on the Zeta. It's not going to share the same body designation. It will be an "F-body". The GTO-Chevelle-Monaro will be something else.
*Camaro is likely to be based on the Zeta. It's not going to share the same body designation. It will be an "F-body". The GTO-Chevelle-Monaro will be something else.
*Camaro would be considered a "niche" car.
As such, it would probally be designed or developed by a small group separate from the normal design process (studio). Team Corvette is still technically tied to Camaro, and GM still has something that resembles a "Team Camaro". It's not at all farfetched that there is a small group working on Camaro now that Corvette is done.
I was even told it was being designed "off site"...a VERY good thing
*Camaro seems still on for it's 40th anniversary.
The Zeta car now seems that it isn't it, yet the car would have to be in final stages of development.
Yes, I would sure as hell hope it's in final development if we're still on target.....
I think subterfuge is being employed at this juncture....
Summary:
1. You people cursing GM for not naming the next RWD V8 coupe "Camaro" aren't doing yourself any favors (to coin someone else's term ).
1. You people cursing GM for not naming the next RWD V8 coupe "Camaro" aren't doing yourself any favors (to coin someone else's term
).
2. Anyone who doesn't think there isn't room for varyingly different coupes in a division as large as Chevrolet isn't thinking large enough.
3. Camaro isn't likely to be developed with the rest of the Zeta line. It's most probally going to be developed by a small special group.
4. GM-Holden has nothing to do with a new Camaro, despite developing the next Monaro & GTO. But it seems they are aware GM-NA is creating a derivative of the Zeta.
5. I'm still being assured there will be a Camaro for it's 40th, so I'm still going with it.
Last edited by Doug Harden; Nov 2, 2004 at 02:43 PM.
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From: Oakland, California
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by guionM
4. GM-Holden has nothing to do with a new Camaro, despite developing the next Monaro & GTO. But it seems they are aware GM-NA is creating a derivative of the Zeta.
Seems like we were all wrong on this.
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Posts: 9,705
From: Oakland, California
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by Chuck!
I wasnt. I have friends that would kill for a old Chevelle wagon.
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Posts: 1,320
From: Alta Loma, CA
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by guionM
I just want to touch on 2 issues, then I gotta get back to work (never get anything done when I come here ).
....
. I'm still being assured there will be a Camaro for it's 40th, so I'm still going with it.
).....
. I'm still being assured there will be a Camaro for it's 40th, so I'm still going with it.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 325
From: NC STATE
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Ok, everybody round of applause... am I the only one who has seen this???
umm... can I get a hell yeah?
GuionM, thank you so very much for posting, maybe that will relight the flame under some of these traitors who are going out and buying a stang.
Screw Bush, Screw Kerry, Guy for el Presidente...
Chevrolet is set to bring out a "Kick-***" performance coupe driven by the correct wheels, complete with LS2 power at a decent price
GuionM, thank you so very much for posting, maybe that will relight the flame under some of these traitors who are going out and buying a stang.
Screw Bush, Screw Kerry, Guy for el Presidente...
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 53
From: South Hill Va. USA
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
guionM thank you for the reassurance in the 40th anni. Camaro
now to anyone that can answer this.... if we have sent the emails like i have and written letters... is there anything more we can do..... hell i am at the point now were i think we need to set up a save the Camaro fund and take up a collection.. i am sure we could figure out a way to make it a non profit deal.. and all write it off on are taxes
(joke) but really i feel helpless at times.....
i want a Camaro not a Chevelle and not a Chevy Coupe by another name.... Camaro is a part of all of us... it is part of America and i will be damned if i would ever consider buying a Mustang.. and i might catch a lot of **** for this .... but to anyone who has even considerd buying a new mustang cause they just cant wait that long bla bla bla.... go buy one hell go buy five cause they will never be the car the camaro is and if you are so willing to jump sides.... i think i speek for the real Camaro lovers out there when i say we do not need you on are side and this isnt really your fight
now to anyone that can answer this.... if we have sent the emails like i have and written letters... is there anything more we can do..... hell i am at the point now were i think we need to set up a save the Camaro fund and take up a collection.. i am sure we could figure out a way to make it a non profit deal.. and all write it off on are taxes
(joke) but really i feel helpless at times..... i want a Camaro not a Chevelle and not a Chevy Coupe by another name.... Camaro is a part of all of us... it is part of America and i will be damned if i would ever consider buying a Mustang.. and i might catch a lot of **** for this .... but to anyone who has even considerd buying a new mustang cause they just cant wait that long bla bla bla.... go buy one hell go buy five cause they will never be the car the camaro is and if you are so willing to jump sides.... i think i speek for the real Camaro lovers out there when i say we do not need you on are side and this isnt really your fight
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by Red Planet
OK...didn't have time to read this entire thread...but someone brought it to my attention. (thank you, by the way...)
do you REALLY believe we're gonna talk to a magazine about this issue with all the stuff you've read on this site in the past two years?
The internet is a great thing.....except for the fact that ANYONE can post just about ANYTHING and not have to know what they're talking about........
Don't believe everything you read.......esp. if it's someone that is not from the company that builds the car or truck..........
do you REALLY believe we're gonna talk to a magazine about this issue with all the stuff you've read on this site in the past two years?
The internet is a great thing.....except for the fact that ANYONE can post just about ANYTHING and not have to know what they're talking about........
Don't believe everything you read.......esp. if it's someone that is not from the company that builds the car or truck..........
THANK YOU!!
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,306
From: Jersey Shore
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
I just though this....
Ok, what if there is a Zeta car, but it is called Chevelle. Only the Chevelle is a 4dr sedan and 2dr coupe? Then a smaller coupe would be the Camaro.
Only problem is that this would lead to a LOT of cars in Chevy.
4dr Chevelle (rwd/awd)
2dr Chevelle (rwd/awd)
2dr Monte (fwd)
4dr Impala (fwd)
4dr and 5dr Malibu (fwd)
2dr Camaro (rwd)
4dr Cobalt (fwd)
2dr Cobalt (fwd)
That is a LOT of cars for just one divison.
Ok, what if there is a Zeta car, but it is called Chevelle. Only the Chevelle is a 4dr sedan and 2dr coupe? Then a smaller coupe would be the Camaro.
Only problem is that this would lead to a LOT of cars in Chevy.
4dr Chevelle (rwd/awd)
2dr Chevelle (rwd/awd)
2dr Monte (fwd)
4dr Impala (fwd)
4dr and 5dr Malibu (fwd)
2dr Camaro (rwd)
4dr Cobalt (fwd)
2dr Cobalt (fwd)
That is a LOT of cars for just one divison.
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,232
From: Orlando, FL USA
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Once again, once the sh#t starts flying out of control, Guy and Red step in and settle everybody back down. Breathe in..............breath out............
As I've said for awhile, I'm all for two coupes totally different in Chevy's lineup. I'm also a HUGE fan of this info of the Camaro being designed "off-site"
As I've said for awhile, I'm all for two coupes totally different in Chevy's lineup. I'm also a HUGE fan of this info of the Camaro being designed "off-site"