Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
11-01-2004, 12:16 PM
#31
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Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by formula79
Which give or take a year is the same time the "Chevelle" would be here...
Replacing MC with Chevelle leaves plenty of room for a smaller Camaro.
Replacing MC with Chevelle leaves plenty of room for a smaller Camaro.
Room for two, RWD 2 door, V8 coupes?
Which one get's the most horsepower?
11-01-2004, 12:22 PM
#32
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Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 6,166
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
A smaller Camaro, when....in 2015? 
Someone brought up the thread about letting GM know how important the Camaro name is....RP indicated that the response was less than spectacular there, but look at places like savethefbody.com and various sites like it, not to mention the members of this board....there are hundreds of thousands of postings and letters available for GM to look at if they so choose, so I don't buy the assertion that the enthusiast community's response has been luke warm. Quite frankly I think some of us (myself included) are getting tired of pandering to, and pleading with, GM to bring our car back. Seems like they're just going to do what they want to do.....
Someone brought up the thread about letting GM know how important the Camaro name is....RP indicated that the response was less than spectacular there, but look at places like savethefbody.com and various sites like it, not to mention the members of this board....there are hundreds of thousands of postings and letters available for GM to look at if they so choose, so I don't buy the assertion that the enthusiast community's response has been luke warm. Quite frankly I think some of us (myself included) are getting tired of pandering to, and pleading with, GM to bring our car back. Seems like they're just going to do what they want to do.....
11-01-2004, 12:35 PM
#33
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Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,504
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Remember when Bob Lutz said Camaro could comeback "maybe 30 years from now"... granted, it was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the GTO's 30 year absense, but maybe it wasn't so far off.
11-01-2004, 12:36 PM
#34
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Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by Doug Harden
Room for two, RWD 2 door, V8 coupes?
Which one get's the most horsepower?
Which one get's the most horsepower?
Chevelle-Zeta based personal luxury coupe. Would not have the GTO's all out performance intentions. Would come with a base V6 and LS4 performance model. GTO would get the LS2 and later LS7, but not the Chevelle.
Camaro-Torana based, noticably smaller than Chevelle, but uses great packaging to help with interior room. Base V6, 330-350 HP LS4 SS, and either an LS2 or LS7 limited edition Z28 based on how frisky GM is feeling.
I think there is room in the lineup for both...especially with the SUV boom slowing and people coming back to cars.
11-01-2004, 12:38 PM
#35
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Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Also, a Torana based Camaro would not be much slower than a Zeta Chevelle to market. If development started today (chassis work has already been done), and it takes 3-4 years to get the car into production...that is still 2007-8.
11-01-2004, 12:39 PM
#36
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Location: NC STATE
Posts: 325
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
OF COURSE they're going to do what they want to do...they're a business, that's how it works. As tired as I am of pleading GM to bring a Camaro back, I would hate for them to bring back something that wasn't Camaro with the Camaro name on it. When I was a youngen, I read a website about modifying 305 tbi's and I've always remembered the quote "Do It Once and Do It Right!"
Doug: I would hope the most powerful engine in the Chevelle would be the LS4, and the Camaro get the LS2 from the Goat or SSR and the base V8 in the Camaro would be the LS4. Maybe there won't be a Chevelle... Maybe there won't be a Camaro... It sees everything is up in the air right now and I don't like it one freakin bit.
Doug: I would hope the most powerful engine in the Chevelle would be the LS4, and the Camaro get the LS2 from the Goat or SSR and the base V8 in the Camaro would be the LS4. Maybe there won't be a Chevelle... Maybe there won't be a Camaro... It sees everything is up in the air right now and I don't like it one freakin bit.
11-01-2004, 12:57 PM
#38
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
If one were to take what we 'think' we know right now it would seem to lean heavily toward a Chevelle being the car we've been discussing...and NOT a Camaro.
Chevelle on Zeta:
Wouldn't have a damned thing to do with the CAW.
Would make use of the $$$$$$$ they've already spent on a Zeta car.
Wouldn't have the problem with the higher firewall.
Would have a higher seating position.
Wouldn't need T-tops.
Would be a much more natural sister car to the GTO.
Could be priced in the GTO's range to help pay for Zeta. Could be Chevy's "value priced" GTO car.
Would give Chevy a "muscle car" with the assorted historical advertising possibilities.
Would give Chevy a V8 RWD coupe.
Could be also sold as a 4 door to spread out the costs and market size.
Hell, why not a Magnum-like stationwagon?!?!
Could even extend to the El Camino (Ute)!
Wouldn't have near the (however ill deserved) image baggage the Camaro has.
Could be priced to do battle with most of the V8 Mustang's market.
Wouldn't leave much room in the budget for a Camaro.
A Camaro:
Would still need to wait until fall of 2005 to even be discussed in public.....
Would need a better, more appropriate platform....that "might" not be as far along in the design timeline as Zeta.
Has a hardcore enthusiast following that will be VERY hard to please......for such a small number of us.
Needs T-Tops.
Nearly every option that doesn't make it more of a performance car..i.e. AWD, navigation systems, etc...is subject to much debate....
But, still 95% of the average public knows what it is.....
Won't make Chevy look like it surrendered FOREVER the ponycar market....
There's more, but you get the picture....
Chevelle on Zeta:
Wouldn't have a damned thing to do with the CAW.
Would make use of the $$$$$$$ they've already spent on a Zeta car.
Wouldn't have the problem with the higher firewall.
Would have a higher seating position.
Wouldn't need T-tops.
Would be a much more natural sister car to the GTO.
Could be priced in the GTO's range to help pay for Zeta. Could be Chevy's "value priced" GTO car.
Would give Chevy a "muscle car" with the assorted historical advertising possibilities.
Would give Chevy a V8 RWD coupe.
Could be also sold as a 4 door to spread out the costs and market size.
Hell, why not a Magnum-like stationwagon?!?!
Could even extend to the El Camino (Ute)!
Wouldn't have near the (however ill deserved) image baggage the Camaro has.
Could be priced to do battle with most of the V8 Mustang's market.
Wouldn't leave much room in the budget for a Camaro.
A Camaro:
Would still need to wait until fall of 2005 to even be discussed in public.....
Would need a better, more appropriate platform....that "might" not be as far along in the design timeline as Zeta.
Has a hardcore enthusiast following that will be VERY hard to please......for such a small number of us.
Needs T-Tops.
Nearly every option that doesn't make it more of a performance car..i.e. AWD, navigation systems, etc...is subject to much debate....
But, still 95% of the average public knows what it is.....
Won't make Chevy look like it surrendered FOREVER the ponycar market....
There's more, but you get the picture....
Last edited by Doug Harden; 11-01-2004 at 01:12 PM.
11-01-2004, 01:10 PM
#39
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Roseville, MI, USA
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Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
I still don't think there will be two RWD, v8 sports cars for Chevy before the end of the decade. There's already too much overlap in the division. Plus, with the Corvette? Nah.
But, you can expect the new Chevy coupe to be on par with the Corvette as far as hp goes. The 'Vette will still be king in hp in GM, that's what Blue Devil is for. But the z06 and base model 'Vette's will not be safe.
Whatever it is in '07 it's going to be powerful. Count on that.
But, you can expect the new Chevy coupe to be on par with the Corvette as far as hp goes. The 'Vette will still be king in hp in GM, that's what Blue Devil is for. But the z06 and base model 'Vette's will not be safe.
Whatever it is in '07 it's going to be powerful. Count on that.
11-01-2004, 01:19 PM
#40
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Port Royal, SC
Posts: 61
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Why not just call it a Monte and drop the old fwd turd ?
-keeps the monte name going and all the NASCAR crap...
-doesnt get the chevelle backlash..i.e. GTO
-still leaves room for a Camaro that can have a better focus and therefor a less "stressfull" business case.
I like this senario.. I think it allows the Monte to be the "something for everyone" coupe ( but is still a major improvement) and lets the Camaro stay focused on the high performance aspect. A business case that only needed 50k cars out of Camaro would allow for a nicely done high performance deal....
-keeps the monte name going and all the NASCAR crap...
-doesnt get the chevelle backlash..i.e. GTO
-still leaves room for a Camaro that can have a better focus and therefor a less "stressfull" business case.
I like this senario.. I think it allows the Monte to be the "something for everyone" coupe ( but is still a major improvement) and lets the Camaro stay focused on the high performance aspect. A business case that only needed 50k cars out of Camaro would allow for a nicely done high performance deal....
11-01-2004, 01:21 PM
#41
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NC STATE
Posts: 325
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by Josh452
I still don't think there will be two RWD, v8 sports cars for Chevy before the end of the decade. There's already too much overlap in the division. Plus, with the Corvette? Nah.
But, you can expect the new Chevy coupe to be on par with the Corvette as far as hp goes. The 'Vette will still be king in hp in GM, that's what Blue Devil is for. But the z06 and base model 'Vette's will not be safe.
Whatever it is in '07 it's going to be powerful. Count on that.
But, you can expect the new Chevy coupe to be on par with the Corvette as far as hp goes. The 'Vette will still be king in hp in GM, that's what Blue Devil is for. But the z06 and base model 'Vette's will not be safe.
Whatever it is in '07 it's going to be powerful. Count on that.
No doubt the CTS-V will get an LS7, but is it possible that another sibling in the Chevy lineup will be receiving an LS7--and while we're speculating everything maybe we'll see a supercharged or dare I say turbocharged LS2!!! That would be golden. Maybe in the form of a Buick... Imagine a super/turbo charged LS2 with a warranty. Is it a dream? Yes, a gearhead's wet dream... 
EDIT: after reading that, why would Chevy super/turbocharge the LS2? They'd probably do it to the LS4 wouldn't they... Or the HF V6. Ah hell, it's all good.
Last edited by Abidar; 11-01-2004 at 01:23 PM.
11-01-2004, 01:28 PM
#42
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by Eric 98z
Why not just call it a Monte and drop the old fwd turd ?
-keeps the monte name going and all the NASCAR crap...
-doesnt get the chevelle backlash..i.e. GTO
-still leaves room for a Camaro that can have a better focus and therefor a less "stressfull" business case.
I like this senario.. I think it allows the Monte to be the "something for everyone" coupe ( but is still a major improvement) and lets the Camaro stay focused on the high performance aspect. A business case that only needed 50k cars out of Camaro would allow for a nicely done high performance deal....
-keeps the monte name going and all the NASCAR crap...
-doesnt get the chevelle backlash..i.e. GTO
-still leaves room for a Camaro that can have a better focus and therefor a less "stressfull" business case.
I like this senario.. I think it allows the Monte to be the "something for everyone" coupe ( but is still a major improvement) and lets the Camaro stay focused on the high performance aspect. A business case that only needed 50k cars out of Camaro would allow for a nicely done high performance deal....
11-01-2004, 01:37 PM
#43
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by Doug Harden
I agree, BUT, you can kiss the possibility of getting a Camaro in the foreseeable future goodbye..... 
11-01-2004, 01:43 PM
#44
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,282
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Originally Posted by Doug Harden
If one were to take what we 'think' we know right now it would seem to lean heavily toward a Chevelle being the car we've been discussing...and NOT a Camaro.
Chevelle on Zeta:
Wouldn't have a damned thing to do with the CAW.
Would make use of the $$$$$$$ they've already spent on a Zeta car.
Wouldn't have the problem with the higher firewall.
Would have a higher seating position.
Wouldn't need T-tops.
Would be a much more natural sister car to the GTO.
Could be priced in the GTO's range to help pay for Zeta. Could be Chevy's "value priced" GTO car.
Would give Chevy a "muscle car" with the assorted historical advertising possibilities.
Would give Chevy a V8 RWD coupe.
Could be also sold as a 4 door to spread out the costs and market size.
Hell, why not a Magnum-like stationwagon?!?!
Could even extend to the El Camino (Ute)!
Wouldn't have near the (however ill deserved) image baggage the Camaro has.
Could be priced to do battle with most of the V8 Mustang's market.
Wouldn't leave much room in the budget for a Camaro.
A Camaro:
Would still need to wait until fall of 2005 to even be discussed in public.....
Would need a better, more appropriate platform....that "might" not be as far along in the design timeline as Zeta.
Has a hardcore enthusiast following that will be VERY hard to please......for such a small number of us.
Needs T-Tops.
Nearly every option that doesn't make it more of a performance car..i.e. AWD, navigation systems, etc...is subject to much debate....
But, still 95% of the average public knows what it is.....
Won't make Chevy look like it surrendered FOREVER the ponycar market....
There's more, but you get the picture....
Chevelle on Zeta:
Wouldn't have a damned thing to do with the CAW.
Would make use of the $$$$$$$ they've already spent on a Zeta car.
Wouldn't have the problem with the higher firewall.
Would have a higher seating position.
Wouldn't need T-tops.
Would be a much more natural sister car to the GTO.
Could be priced in the GTO's range to help pay for Zeta. Could be Chevy's "value priced" GTO car.
Would give Chevy a "muscle car" with the assorted historical advertising possibilities.
Would give Chevy a V8 RWD coupe.
Could be also sold as a 4 door to spread out the costs and market size.
Hell, why not a Magnum-like stationwagon?!?!
Could even extend to the El Camino (Ute)!
Wouldn't have near the (however ill deserved) image baggage the Camaro has.
Could be priced to do battle with most of the V8 Mustang's market.
Wouldn't leave much room in the budget for a Camaro.
A Camaro:
Would still need to wait until fall of 2005 to even be discussed in public.....
Would need a better, more appropriate platform....that "might" not be as far along in the design timeline as Zeta.
Has a hardcore enthusiast following that will be VERY hard to please......for such a small number of us.
Needs T-Tops.
Nearly every option that doesn't make it more of a performance car..i.e. AWD, navigation systems, etc...is subject to much debate....
But, still 95% of the average public knows what it is.....
Won't make Chevy look like it surrendered FOREVER the ponycar market....
There's more, but you get the picture....
Chevelle:
Could have a "fresh design"...read: "not retro, or hindered by Heritage styling cues".....as the Chevelle changed it's look a lot in times past....especially in the 70's.
Could also explain the "redesign" we've been hearing about...IOW, get rid of the Camaro cues and do a Chevelle instead....
11-01-2004, 02:18 PM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NC STATE
Posts: 325
Re: Dec. issue PHR - "New Camaro" may be called "Chevelle"?
Purely speculation...
What if, yes what if, we have a Chevelle to replace the Monte/Malibu. Okay, that's cool with me, make the Chevelle the new face in NASCAR like Dodge is doing with the Charger or whatever the name of that car will be...
Make the Chevelle versatile as it has been stated before--Station wagon, AWD, 4 door version as options as well as V6s and the LS4.
Then we can cut to the more sporty sibling in the Chevy family... The Camaro on the Torana chasis, which theoretically could be done by 2008. And if it looks anything like PlumCrazy's newest rendition, watch out Mustang.
Maybe the Camaro isn't in limbo. Maybe the Camaro on Zeta chasis is in limbo. Maybe Lutz has a 100% full intention of building a Camaro, how could you not if you were the head of GM?
What if, yes what if, we have a Chevelle to replace the Monte/Malibu. Okay, that's cool with me, make the Chevelle the new face in NASCAR like Dodge is doing with the Charger or whatever the name of that car will be...
Make the Chevelle versatile as it has been stated before--Station wagon, AWD, 4 door version as options as well as V6s and the LS4.
Then we can cut to the more sporty sibling in the Chevy family... The Camaro on the Torana chasis, which theoretically could be done by 2008. And if it looks anything like PlumCrazy's newest rendition, watch out Mustang.
Maybe the Camaro isn't in limbo. Maybe the Camaro on Zeta chasis is in limbo. Maybe Lutz has a 100% full intention of building a Camaro, how could you not if you were the head of GM?