100K per year and Camaro is everyone's darling. Half that...not so much, especially on an orphan architecture..

 

Have you driven the 5th gen? I'm curious about how you'd compare the GTO-5th-4th spread.

Having driven GTO, G8, 4th and 5th, I'd have to say the 4th gen feels the most "sports car" of the bunch - the most hardcore, track oriented, nothing-but-performance. The GTO on the other hand (much like the G8), is more of a long distance, high speed at comfort, cross country cruising machine. It feels more big and lazy than the 4th gen does. Prod either though, and they both make a lot of noise and are perfectly happy shredding tires.

Its not that the GTO cannot perform or is at all less fun than the 4th gen - it just feels different, and I'd MUCH rather have the G8 or GTO for a 12 hour road trip . That extra weight and bulk (caused by cushier seats, better ride quality, independent rear end, and a transmission tunnel that wont bake your leg) on the highway is a good thing for such a car. The GTO is NOT a Lotus.

People here was just expecting a successor to the 4th gen, and not a successor that's more true to the Monaro/GTO. It's not for me, and not for a lot of people - but it is still selling, and we should be happy it is doing as well as it is.

But it is still pretty heavy.

 

I've driven a Monaro (GTO) and VE SS (G8). Does that count?

If it does then I would most certainly have the G8 if I wanted to drive it hard because it's more forgiving than a GTO at the limit, which tends to give the impression you never quite know when the rear end is going to let go. The G8 is far more forgiving and you could slide it around more easily even if it is the heavier car... because it's just got great overall balance. It communicates to the driver even if the electronics are doing some of the work for you.

If it doesn't then please ignore my post.

But both cars a true muscle cars and would not disappoint anybody who loves to drive their car hard occasionally or on long distances.

PS: I'm getting a mint Monaro (6 spd manual), tomorrow, if all goes well. It will be great to be back in a GM car after a 2 year hiatus - thanks to GM's decision not to sell Camaro down here!

 

But no 5th gen for comparison though... It also should be said that every time Top Gear got their hands on a Holden they viewed it as (a) crude (b) decently performing via stig laps (c) a lot of fun and (d) incredible at powerslides.

 

You got me there.

You know what, Geoff, I have not read too many personal reviews of G8 vs Camaro on this forum. I know I make the assumption that Camaro is similar to drive... purely because it's on a similar platform... but it actually should be better in the same way Monaro is better than its donor 4-door car. What am I missing? I'll let the others brief me on this one...

 

Funny that you mention that. I drove from Tucson to Santa Clara in one day a couple of years ago in my 2002 Camaro. It wasn't bad at all. The '02 has a 2.73 axle and no T-tops, and is noticeably quieter than the '98 with 3.23 and T-tops.

 

I don't think it is possible to put some sort of number on how differene there is with all-season vs summer tires. But when it comes to handling and braking, I don't think there is any doubt that there is a measurable difference.

Has there ever been a test between the SS and new GT in which one was on summers and one was on all-seasons?

There is no track pack for the 2011 GT.

 

Another 4th gen would have just been another failure. The cars have their bright spots but are difficult to love.

 

In my limited experience, there is a big difference between all season tires and summer only tires. Especially if those all season tires are *Goodyear RSA's or similar. Traction? Nah, who needs traction.

*Not all Goodyear tires are bad, mmkay?

 

As I have mentioned here before, G8 was a very impressive large sports sedan. But I also think it's fair that expectations for Camaro shift upward from there - Camaro is not a large sports sedan.

 

No, I have not driven a 5th gen. I was basing my claims on the same type comparisons I have seen some make when talking about the driving dynamics of a GTO vs a 4th gen.

I will agree with you that a 4th gen feels more crude/hardcore, and it definitely feels lighter than the GTO (In stock form I might add...you'd be amazed at what a few suspension mods do for a goat!). I guess I just don't equate hardcore to fun anymore. I heard people say the same thing when the C5 Corvette came out....it just wasn't as brash as a C4....even though it pretty much dominated it in every performance category.

I'm all about the next Camaro dropping some weight...I just don't want it to get too extreme or 'hardcore.' That's one of the reasons the 4th gen failed IMO....

 

I've switched from summer only to all season tires on a couple of cars. The performance difference was very noticeable. The summer tires handle better, brake better, accelerate better - a whole bunch better.

But add dropping temps, rain/ice/snow, and the all-seasons let you drive like a human in the snow belt. You give up performance for them in the warm months though.

 

Exactly. I don't know why people keep bringing up that the G8 has "nice" large sedan handling in order to justify the Camaro. The Camaro is (or should be) a different animal.

I think my wife's Hemi Durango handles "nice" for a truck and is pretty fast. Could you make a great Camaro out of that too?

 

What would you consider "extreme or hardcore"?

 

Says the guy with the 500+ RWHP GTO.

I don't think anyone in their right mind is suggesting a return to the 3rd/4th Gen formula. But it is absolutely possible to get a very sophisticated ride and great handling out of a smaller, lighter next-gen Camaro. No one is looking for Camaro to become some hardcore, teeth-rattling crudemobile.