I hang my hat on facts:

-GM released a full video from the Ring with time.
-Ford went to the ring last week.
-Ford has not released times.
-Ford has in the past rained on GM's parades on purpose.

Do I need to go back to old posts and quote you for saying Ring times were coming out today? How about when you predicted 11.3's for the GT500? When you predicted how much faster the GT500 was going to be at the Ring? You hang your hat on fantasy, Cleopatra (Queen of Denial), so be careful throwing stones from that glass house.

And when have I ever said I hated the GT500? I think it is an awesome car, which I have put in my posts repeatedly. The electronic cotrols in it are going to raise the bar for everyone, GM included. I just think it is funny how much justification and excuse making you have to do. And it is fun picking on you, especially when your beloved Ford has backed you up against the wall! That just makes it more fun!

Again, if you don't like it, I suggest staying away from any website containing the word "Camaro" in the web address and trying to become the resident Ford lackey, this one included. Go back to Ford country.

-Geoff

 

So we should disregard the info from the entity that did it, the one that would be liable for making false claims about a product, and simply rely on what one random person says on the internet?

Also it was more like 1.69s for the auto and 1.73 for the manual if I recall correctly. Both on G2's deflated to 25psi. If you want to say that reducing the pressure doesn't make it showroom stock then fine. The "they are lying and used drag radials" thing was old several weeks ago.

The whole point of taking the drag radials there wasn't to get the best time for the cars in any event. The only reason they brought them was to make sure the PTM / Launch Control calibrations wouldn't cause unexpected behavior when customers put them on.

 

It took Superman Evan Smith to go a full 0.1 faster than the ZL1. The ZL1 was tested in similar less than ideal conditions.

Furthermore, if Smith is there using the launch control that Ford spent so much time and money on, it's probably for good reason: it's necessary for a good time on street tires. I doubt we'll see much quicker with it turned off on stock rubber. With it off and a good tire however...

 

Yup, a lot of talking nothing to show.

What we do know is this

Ring time, with video.

[autostream]http://autostream.com/camaroz28/?page_type=firebirdplayerthumbnail&framepage=2634& transactionid=1337381108-6719487126&posted_by=King_autoblankauto_Moose_auto blankauto_SS_www.camaroz28.com&youtube_video_id=0m Camguzqjs[/autostream]

... And that's about it. GM never gave us the video of the 11.93 ZL1 auto and the 11.96 of the ZL1 manual.

I don't think any of us is surprised that the GT500 is a faster 1/4 mile car with a higher trap speed. (When Ford releases the official numbers)

The GT500 won't touch the ZL1's Ring time. Not unless Ford wants to the make GT500 not street liveable.

 

I refuse to get into a baited pissing match with a choice naysayer. I will leave the thread with this.

From a Ford insider who now has permission to state the info. Disclaimer: he has been a trusted source for years on said site, and has always been right.

For best stock times:

BTW, what did folks expect GM to say after the mistake was made?? "Oh, we made a big boo boo and quoted the DR time for the stock tires time, even though there were people there who saw the whole thing, and state the times were on drag radials and the chance of anyone repeating the same 60ft time are somewhere between 0 and NONE. Oopsies, my bad."

 

The CTS-V runs 12.1 to 12.2.

A ZL1 Camaro with slightly more power and 200-300lbs less weight to carry runs 11.9, and you think that those times are unreasonable?

 

You guys are really trying to compare 'ring times on different days under different conditions with different drivers, and drag times under different conditions and different strips? Makey no sense...

I'm not overly fixated on 'ring times, but the only real comparison would be for an independent entity to buy the cars, stock, align both to the "good" end of the spec ranges, and take them to the Nurburgring with a professional 'ring specialist. They're both on the same make/model tires, so that would be a true contest between the cars. I would bet on the Ford, but hey, the ZL1 could concievably be quicker, which would certainly be worth bragging about. The best ZL1 time vs. whatever Ford did there under different conditions with different drivers, and possibly different objectives, is not a true comparison.

At the drag strip, there can be no question that the GT500 is quicker, I would bet by more like .3 sec at the same strip, at the same time, with similar talent at the wheel. And way way WAY the hell faster trap speed.

In any case, even if .1sec in the 1/4 is the GT500's real advantage at the same track, same conditions, similar talent, that's still a WIN.

 

This thread is why I like this forum on this site more than any other, to wit; while there are disagreements, and thinly-veiled brand loyalty, it is still more reasonable than others.

 

That's not a win. That's an embarrassment.

 

To whom?

I said that *if* the difference was only a tenth, that'd still be a GT500 win. I think the real difference in ET, all else equal, is going to be more like 3-5 tenths.

I'd tend to call a tenth "close" rather than "an embarrassment" anyway, but maybe the ZL1 *should* be embarrassed to weigh over 4100 lb...

 

The Camaro is never embarrassed when it consistently kicks the crap out of Mustang is sales month after month. That is unless Ford puts $4000 on the hood like it did in the two or three months in the last few years that it actually outsold Camaro.

-Geoff

 

The thing is, Cleo, that a lighter car with more horsepower SHOULD be able to beat a heavier car with almost 100 less at the dragstrip. The fact that it is as close it is makes you wonder.

Using logic, one would expect that same car to post a better time at the Ring too. So when the heavier car with less power beats it, then that, is a big deal.

Did the "Insider" cop to the real ring time? Or did he admit the truth, that the Mustang is incapable of beating the ZL1 there.

-Geoff

 

This sounds remarkably similar to what we were hearing 10-12 years ago.... Except it was the F-body that was the better performer, and it was the Ford guys that were talking about how the Mustang was killing the Camaro in sales...

 

To go even further, the reason why they killed the F-body to begin with was poor sales. Sure, GM didn't really pay much attention to the cars during their later years, but sales numbers and net profits are what make or break cars.

 

Like Bob indicated, I wouldn't really go there - unless you weren't yapping about Camaro's performance edge from '93-2002.....