I agreed with it - but I'm not sure, has anyone said they wouldn't buy it for any badging reasons? I know you didn't say people have said that, but you mentioned if that was the factor we should be concerned about and I wondered if it ever came up. I don't think there are many that wouldn't buy it, but if it was something with no badging (unlikely, I know)/whatever the scenario may be, it may keep a lot of people waiting on the top model name..

 

I understand your point as well. I think Jason meant it more as if they want to start new heritage/etc, then let them. It IS still a Camaro...it's not as if he's saying "well...who cares if they call it the Camaro? as long as its RWD V8 coupe, even if they named it Princess, it will be badass!!"

 

It's still a Camaro because calling it anything else would be a failure to capitalize off the mark the brand has made on the automotive industry. Is it only a coincidence that the concept borrows from first gen styling cues? After GM announced the death of the F-bodies in 2002, the first gen Camaro resale market went through the roof. Z/28 is a well known and honored trademark for GM with a hertitage that is impossible to replace instantly with a new direction; and as such they would be fools to leave it out of the equation in the rebirth of the Camaro.

There will be a Z/28 if GM is smart. To leave it out of the line-up would be an even bigger blunder than killing the Camaro in the first place.

 

Stepping back from the kneejerk emotional responses for a moment, consider a few things.


1. Z28's heritage was started on the racetrack. It was an engine and handling package.

2. Z28 is an option code on a list.

3. The Camaro SS was THE Camaro to own till GM killed off it's SS line due to insurence surcharges that sent rates into the stratosphere (Chevelle SS became the Laguna S3, Camaro SS became the LT, Nova SS became the Nova Rallye Sport).

4. Z28 came onto it's own and gathered popularity only when it returned in 1977 1/2 on the heels of Pontiac's Trans Ams meteoric climb in sales in the '75-77 timeframe.

5. The most recognized 3rd gen Camaro isn't the Z28, but the IROC Camaro. The only reason Z28 came back is because GM pulled Camaro out of the International Race Of Champions competition.

6. The last 3rd gen Z28s were not that popular.

7. When the Camaro SS came out, it was the only Camaro model not to see any significant sales decline, as the rest of the line (especially low priced Z28s) saw their sales drop like a swimmer with a anvil tied to his neck.

8. Even within THIS community.... on a website named CamaroZ28.com, what's the car that most here seem to own, or at least seems disproportional in ownership? The Camaro SS.

9. With SS becoming Chevrolet's performance standard bearer, where and how can you fit a Z28 in the line up?


The way I see it, there is only 3 choices here.

A. Kill the Z28 name altogether.

I feel that would be a total waste of the equity the name has built up over the years, even considering it's been overshadowed by the SS & IROC, or has been dead most of it's existence.

B. Use it in a base level performance model.

That idea is about as easy to sell as rotted fish. The last base level Z28s sold pretty slowly till the SS came out, then didn't sell at all. Camaro buyers tended to load their cars up. Then they saw the Camaro SS in the showroom that sold for perhaps an extra $20 or $30 per month, and another Z28 sale lost. i'm a fan of base performance cars, and I used to whine about how everyone went for the SS, skewing any hope for a budget performance car in the future. Turns out I was right.

C. Take Z28 back to it's roots, and use it as a Track & Performance enhancing option.

This by far is the best direction if anyone actually wants to present a realistic and reasonable alternative that stands a snowball-in-a-oven's chance. A Camaro SS with a 'Z28 competition option' (like Corvette's Z51 option) in this scenario would have a competition suspension and tires, and perhaps either a bump in horsepower or perhaps a supercharged version of the SS engine.

The car would not be a stand alone model. Regardless as to a car's track abilities, if it rides rough on real streets, it's going to rust on dealer lots.

Camaro SS would have performance suspension that is street friendly, and a optional "Z28 package" for the track would make the name true to it's heritage as car that has competition level track abilities, and would be far more financially viable than attempting a stand alone model.


GM isn't going to make the same mistakes with the 5th gen as they did with the 4th. They are looking to the past to create a car that's going to actually succeed, and even more importantly....Be Profitable!

Don't expect a letter writing campaign or alot of hollering to work if the numbers don't make sense....

......especially if you have a Camaro SS instead of a Z28 sitting in your garage.

Hell..... this site can't even agree on the pecking order of an SS and Z28.

 

C for me

 

they won't make a Z/28....










































they will make a ZED/28















cause it is canadian built after all...

 

I'm not quite sure of what the purpose of that would be. Z/28 from a branding perspective has more than enough gravitas to stand on it's own....probably even more so than SS.

Also, the Camaro Team is trying to differentiate specific models on the 5th gen, not muddle them together into confusing combos.

How do you figure that? That scenario wouldn't be true to Z/28's heritage AT ALL. And as far as financial viability, why does making a rough riding package called Z/28, which would be optional on a Camaro SS make it viable? It doesn't.

BTW, regarding financial viability, I betcha the (stand alone) Z06 is the MOST profitable car in the GM system....and last I checked, they were at 25% of production.

Really Guy, I think that you're just plain,way off here. There are more than enough of us around, who know EXACTLY what Z/28 is and should be - and are more than willing to pay for a new one.

 

You'd better duck and run!!
(not that "I" disagree ).

That's just foolish!! We all know there's only one title that stands for CAMARO, and CAMARO alone!!

Z/28!

 

Isn't it CamaroZ28.com, after all?

 

I think the quote I remember was something like...."Any Chevrolet can be an SS, but only a Camaro can be a Z/28".....FWIW....

 

Okay, I have to say something again. First off, Im not trying to bash the Z28, in fact I kinda like it better than the SS. The Z28 exists for a reason, and it does have certain things for performance that the SS doesnt. But I really have to say again, because there a lot of people here talking about things like making the Z28 version have higher horsepower than the SS. I looked up the stats on the engines, and it was the SS that had more horsepower back in the sixties. Again, I am NOT saying that SS is the "better" model, Im just stating that as far as engines go, the SS always had more horsepower. Am I wrong? Why are so many people trying to say that the new Z28 should have more horsepower or torque than the new SS?

 

2 things .

1 - Don't let the 290 HP rating of the 302 fool you . It could out-run an SS 350 with 300 HP, and probably the SS 396, 375 HP too . My Dad had a '69 SS 350 that he said he could run with the 396's, but Z28's were faster .

2 - Like Guy said above, they could make the Z28 an "option" like Z51 is to the Corvette. The Z51's don't get any more power, they just get improved suspension, transmission (specifically, gears) and things like that . Whether the Z28 "option" would get more HP is debatable (and yet to be found out ).

..... although, isn't that what the 4th-gen SS's were? Just an improved Z28?!

 

I think we've been through this already. http://64.65.63.61/forums/showthread...=489239&page=4 Go to post 51.

 

From said post 51...
I'm so glad to read that someone else has experienced the same initial reaction as I had after having driven one of these simply amazing cars for the 1st time.
I'm 57 years old and I remember (like it was yesterday - you know how these life-changing experiences have that crazy tendency to stick in your memory? )
It was 1967 and one of my very good friends was taken to the local Chev-Olds dealer here in Toronto by his Dad to buy him a high-school graduation present.
To make a long story short, he came home with a brand new Z/28, not even knowing what the hell he had. A week or so later, he asked me if I wanted to drive it. Du-h-h-h... what do you think I said?
Darned thing was a real handful - no power steering and the clutch was a real biatch... good thing you couldn't get it out of 2nd gear driving it on city streets 'cuz it revved so high! But Holy Crap! When I punched that thing out, I simply had a jaw-dropping epiphany that has remained emblazoned on my brain all through these years! Goosebumps... hell - you damned well better believe it! ...plus more!
Fast forward a few years and I'm going thru the buying and selling of a few "performance" cars while trying to balance the "family" lifestyle... a '71 'Vette roadster (L48 - no big deal), an '85 Mustang GT ragtop (gotta have a backseat to park the 2 kids in)... a '94 SHO (finances were tough and I couldn't justify the expense of a winter beater any more)
In 1998, I took a Camaro SS out for a test drive ('cuz I'd read such wonderful reports in the rags about this Corvette LS1 engine that GM had decided to plunk into it) ... and guess what?... it was 1967 all over again for me!! That test drive just brought back all those amazing memories for me (goosebumps included!) and I was a goner - totally sold on this machine!
Since acquiring my '98 SS, I've discovered that I'm really a closet road racer and I now make it my goal to get out on as many different road courses as I can with this car... and all the while keeping in mind the road racing heritage of the original Z/28... which I feel so priveleged to have experienced...
My own personal preference is to have the Z/28 badge on the top-of-the-line "Top Dawg" (or as I call it - the "King Kong" Camaro )... but WTF... when push comes to shove, I really don't care what GM chooses to call it.
I guess it really doesn't matter all that much... just so long as this car takes no prisoners on a roadcourse... and I get goosebumps driving it.

Best regardSS,

Elie

 

I really don't care if it's top dog or not, I would just like a focused purpose for the name. Not to be a "V8 base Camaro" by another name. Even if it were a 1LE type RPO that could be stuck on an SS would be ok w/ me, so long as it was a meaningful package.