This inspired a neat contest for our Podcast...

What if you could pick one or the other, but not both? What would you choose?

Check this out here:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494976

Someone is going to win a free iPod and a die-cast car signed by Scott Settlemire, Chris Frezza and myself.

 

The 69 Yenkos were COPO's that immediately went to another lot to get Yenko stickers by teenagers getting $5 a day. I dont know what specifically you want us to look at on that site.

 

They have the actual production numbers of all Yenkos made down to each car.

 

Okay- I'm going to open myself up to flames, but I'm going to contribute my two cents.

I just finished reading every single post back-to-back-to-back, so I'm familiar with all the arguments. I want to vote for the option that recieved almost no discussion, and most of the responses were along the lines of "shut up, moron" with no justification as to why.

Here's a possible F-body line up, followed by my reasoning:
Camaro: ~250HP 3.5 liter V6, limited interior options, no graphics, soft suspension, $18kish
RS: ~280HP 3.9 liter V6, more options, some cool graphics packages, soft suspension, around $21k
Z/28: ~330HP 3.9 liter V6, aggressive suspension and brake mods, limited interior options, no convertible, around $24k
SS: ~400HP V8, soft suspension, any interior option on the list, $30k and up.
ZL1: Wait a year, find out what sells, then slap a bad-*** 427 in it, option it the way the 75% of customers are , then go out and kick the rustangs *** around the block and clean up on profit margin too.

The base Camaro is just that- base. The RS boosts performance and luxury a little and profit margin a lot with minimal investment. The Z/28 provides a boost in power and profit with a large boost in handling. The SS is tire melting fast and wallet lightening expensive, but kind of soft and cushy for the middle age guy. I don't really have a plan for the ZL1. I just think that GM should wait a short time to figure out where the market is going and then build a car that reacts to what the press and consumers are saying. Ideally GM could de-content it, slap a sick motor in it, and charge way more for it. GT 500 killer? yes. Corvette competitor? No.

My basic point is that if you ignore cylinder count a 325HP car is pretty quick, and if BMW can get 330 horse out of a 3.2 liter motor in 2000, GM should be able to it with 4 liters in 2008. If you limit the options and reprogram the PCM for high-end power you get a stripped base car with an aggressive suspension and a high-revving motor. That sounds like a Z/28 to me.
If you build a relatively soft riding, fully optioned grand tourer with a sledge hammer under the hood, that sounds like an SS.

All of these (except for the "ZL1") can be done for comparatively insignificant investment, and other than the V8 the basic vehicle needs no modifications. All mods consist of installing different brakes/springs/exhaust/seats/trim during assembly and then slapping on dedicated decals. The wiring harness, carpeting, interior trim... all the crap you don't think about but cost money if you need to change them stay the same.

The rest of the world is driving NA 6's and turbo 4's, and GM should take that into consideration when they plan the Camaro. An OHC 6 would make the Camaro eligible for a whole host of overseas racing classes, and "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" works in Europe the same as it does in America.
If GM could give the world the ride, handling, and fuel economy of a 2002 BMW 330i with a little extra power and a lot less refinement (for $20,000 less) in 2009 I think people would buy it.

 

You can just about count out a 427 Camaro coming directly from GM as I believe its been stated several times in the past that the LS7 will be phased out by the time Camaro returns.

A V6 Z/28? Are you serious? Go kill yourself now please... before others here hunt you down.

 

V6 Z28?! Wow.....just, wow.

 

See? flame posts. Yet no one will explain to me what's wrong with a 325HP, 6 speed, $24k Z/28. The cylinder count is wrong? According to who? A small group of self selected experts that couldn't manage to purchase enough of their dream cars to keep them from being cancelled?

If the the two choices you have are a 6 cylinder Z/28 that keeps the program alive, or a Camaro program that dies in two years, which do you take? Your comments suggest that you would prefer the Camaro to die rather than think outside the box- leaving us ZERO options. I would prefer it to live. Under the program I outlined above I can always buy a stripper SS and swap the emblems if I have to have a Z/28 with 8 cylinders.

By the way- the Z/28 I describe mimics the last generation BMW M3, and unless you're totally delusional you'll admit that that car would be kick-*** for $24k.

 

I think you make an excellent point, but this thread is really more about Camaro historical trivia than current market conditions.

 

Gee, and I thought it was obvious, I hope you didnt hurt your arm patting yourself on the back all night.
flowmotion is right, I just cant see a 6 banger Z because of the the Zs history. Call the top level V6 a Sport and V8 the SS. How's that? Everything else looks great.
And by the way, since getting my license in '91 I've owned 1 2nd gen, 1 3rd gen and 4 4th gens, all V8s. One man can do just so much.

 

A V6 SS would make more sense, seeing how GM has built V6 SS cars before.

 

QFT!

No V6 Z28. The SS & Z28 will be V8s. And yes a V6 SS makes more sense but I doubt that will ever happen. If you take the nameplate tags (SS, Z28, RS) out of Mjolnir post it makes some sense.

 

I see what your trying to say but there are two very big problems with your theory I see. M Series is top of the line street racer just like Z28. At least thats the way I understand it. With the turbo 335 BMW the next M3 may very well be a V8. Theres nothing wrong with the V6 you mentioned other than the badging.

The other problem is the 3 series is a smaller car. The Camaro is more comparable to the 6 series in size. While we are comparing Camaro to BMW from the BMW site refering to M6

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m/m6coupe/default
"Powered by a 5.0 liter V-10 engine capable of generating 500 horsepower and 383 lb.-ft. of torque, the BMW M6 Coupe can rocket from 0 to 60 mph in 4.5 seconds*. With that kind of power at your disposal, the M6 Coupe just might challenge your capacity for exhilaration"

That sounds alot like what I imagine the Z28 to be with some LS motor for alot cheaper. I dont expect the Z to contend with the M6, but to even get close for half the price with style to boot would REALLY boost GMs image.

 

There's nothing wrong with a performance V6 Camaro. However to use the Z/28 name on such a vehicle would be stupid, no asinine. Your arrogance also clouds your knowledge. Camaro's sales figures had nothing to do with why it was canceled. That subject has been beaten to death on this website. For someone who claims to have trolled this board for a great while before posting, you should know this.
Why would Camaro die without a Z/28? Do you have any evidence as to why that would happen? I'd rather the Z/28 name die than to slap it on a V6.
No I would rather have the Camaro live. However, the performance Camaros have always been about V8 2+2 pony cars. There never has been a true V6 performance Camaro. Sure there have been various levels of six cylinder Camaros, but none of them outdid the base V8 in performance... ever.
Now you're talking like an import tuner. Badge swapping is for younger enthusiasts. Even my youngest stepson hates badge swapping. And what real enthusiast wants a "sticker" car anyway? Seriously, that's just a plain asinine suggestion.
The M3 uses a straight 6, which totally out performs any V6 configuration GM has to offer. I happen to also own a last generation M3. (Well its my son's car, but I paid for most of it and have driven it.) Its a bad little car, but you can't honestly tell me the M3 is target competition for Camaro. First of all, its far smaller than Camaro is going to be. Secondly, the M3 is more upscale, and if you had read anything in the past two years on the direction GM is headed, then you would know that they fully intend to compete against BMW with the Pontiac division.

Then there's the whole heritage perspective of this new Camaro that we haven't delved into. This Camaro clearly pays homage to the Camaros of the past. That generation was known for V8 performance. It would be a complete 180-degree shift for them to call a performance V6 Z/28 based upon the direction they went with the styling on this car. A better candidate for a V6 performance coupe to market against the M3 would have some type of transitional version of the last GTO.

We can logically discuss why your idea is a stupid one for hours on end. However, your apparent arrogance would probably take any argument against you as a flame. Hang around here for a few years and earn your stripes before trying to push yourself as some kind of internet god.

 

Any & every Camaro enthusiast around the world!! Probably a large number of people INSIDE GM working on the Camaro too!!!

Since the Camaro is not just a "bread & butter" car ... never was, never will be ... it doesn't have to conform to the normal "rules" (which is, follow the market to a "T"). The Camaro is an "enthusiasts' car" ... even if it is being marketed to a broader audience. It is a car that (by GM's own words) "inspires passion". It has a huge following, and there are even emotional ties to the car for many, many people (including people inside GM!! ).

If they're going to build a V6 Camaro and slap Z/28 badges on it, you might as well just scrap the entire program, and go back to building cookie cutter "commuter" cars . That is just so WRONG in so many ways. It's not about just the performance (because over the years, the "performance" of the Z28 dropped like a stone, before it finally picked back up through the 90's) but it's just as much about the "image" ... when someone (ANYONE) thinks about what a Camaro is, or what a Z/28 is, it's a V8 powered muscle car! (or "pony car", for those who know better ).

I agree with what was just said above ..... if anything, call the V6 "performance" car an SS, since "SS" has been watered down in years of late . (although we all know that would **** off a huge group of SS fans no different than a V6 Z/28 pisses off the Z/28 fans).

 

What about a coupe version of the next gen Malibu with a performance V6 SS? To me that would better fit the industry mold for such a car. (Think Holden Torana)