My version includes all that as well. My point was more along the lines of very little options, just like the Z06.

1000 sorries Camino. I was still on my first cup of coffee. However I don't want a 1LE stripper track car. I want a Z06-like road racer.

Wrong Guy. They did require the engine size used to be production sizes. GM was going with the 283 in the Z/28 (The 327 and 350 were too big) until Vince Piggins got the idea to drop a hardened 283 crank into the 327 and drop it down two 302 cubes. (Of course most of the race versions were bored 15 over to the maximum displacement allowable of 305 cid/5.0 L.)

IMHO, Camaro SS and Z/28 side by side doesn't work in 2009. The Z/28 needs to be that $40K+ GT500 competitor.

But not as much as the Z/28 was. The factory Z/28 put out closer to 400hp. Race versions were even more rediculous. If you actually believe the 350/295hp L48 is comparable to the the 302/290hp Z/28 motors (MO, MP and DZ), I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you cheap.
Bingo!

I don't care what it costs... that's the Camaro I want, need and must have. I'd just rather see GM build it than some aftermarket hot rod shop.

 

Boy, this thing is in the weeds now.

Didn't we have a rumor a while back that the Blue Devil could be an "SS"? I don't think that the name has been announced for that Top Dog Vette yet so GM may still want an "SS" Vette ( Peace Doug!)

The thing that has me fuzzy is the thought of the SS moniker becoming the "GT" equivalent. To this point the SS has sort of been an SVT variant. Bit@h about the Cobalt all you want, but remember the Focus SVT?


I'm betting that if the Z comes back that it will be a Saleen or GMMG-like version that represents the Super Camaro Extreme.

BUT......the Z may be officially dead or relagated to lower duty if the Top Vette becomes the SS. Otherwise the performance naming strategy would be inverse in the two lines:
(Vette, Z06, SS VS. Camaro, SS, Z28)

Or worse yet, it could be the equivalent of the "Boss, Bullet, or Hertz Shelby" type debacle

I don't care what they call it as long as I can mod it, and it eats ponys!

 

No worries jg, all is forgiven.

I also agree that the Z/28 should not be a stripper as many of the 1LE cars were. I just used 1LE to help get the point across. Z/28 would have to surpass that formula.

 

SS = Luxo ride performance Camaro. Big V8, NAV, Ttop, YADA YADA. Girls like it too.

Z28 = Decontented, but not unliveable. AC, Tilt, Cruise, hard top only, manual only, aimed at munching GT500s.

Looks like we are all singing they "you can call me Ray" song now............

 

I mostly just read the threads, but I wanted to speak out on this topic.

If we want a super performance camaro this is what we need from GM.

Base Camaro <20K
SS Camaro <30K
Z/28 Camaro around 37K

I own a 2000 Z28 6 speed, t-tops, etc. Do I love this car? Absolutely! Is it a "race car"? Absolutely! Is it what I wanted? Absolutely!

Does the general public love this car? To look at? Yes! To Drive? No!
This car is a "race car", tight steering, bumpy ride, no modern amenities. GM gave us what we asked for in the 4th gen, a "race car", but nobody but us race car fans liked to drive it as an everyday driver. If we want the 5th gen to be popular (and we do) we need an SS that's more in line with say a Monte Carlo SS. ie. Driver friendly.

Everyone keeps asking how to differentiate an SS from a Z. Point blank the answer is to make the SS comfortable to drive. Looser steering ratio, smoother riding. ie. mass market appeal, a comfortable daily driver for everyone that is not like "us" and looking for a "race car", but still fast enough to get their heart racing.

Sidebar: Why did the SS outsell the Z/28 one year late in the 4th gen cycle? Because the SS was only a slight "SLP" upgrade from a Z/28, not a different car directed at a different market. There was no comfortable camaro with performance to be had in the 4th gen. Let's say that together, "there was no comfortable camaro with performance to be had in the 4th generation". And maybe there never has been in any generation, but I believe it cost GM sales. In today's market you need mass appeal to make the car feasable. Come on guys, how many people want to drive a 4th gen Z besides us? I would guess (no hard facts here) that "most" people would rather have a smoother riding Monte SS (but faster) class of vehicle. Everybody talks about having the V6 model to carry the Camaro line and make it feasable, but my viewpoint is that you also need a V8 "SS" model that's comfortable to drive and friendly to all drives.

All that being said, what I want is a V6 for the masses, an SS for the fast "comfortable" ride and a Z/28 with tight steering ratios, great handling and 6-speed for us. Possibly a higher engine option in the Z, but definately top of the line handling at the cost of feeling every bump on the road and a better transmission ratio. A Z/28 made by GM (not an aftermarket upgrade by SLP or someone else) that is truly a pavement pounding, curve ripping, true to its name Z/28.

In closing, the problem with the 4th gen was that there was no middle ground. You either got a V6 or a "race car" Z28/SS (basically the same car). We need the SS as a performance yet comfortable ride, so that we can have our often envied true "Z/28".

I've thought about this all week, and I'm done now. One last thing...Thank you fbodfather for helping bring back the only car I will ever own.

 

You know guys, it just occured to me that it would one hell of a lot of fun to sit down with some the cooler heads in this discussion and thrash out a solution to this. Especially if we had access to some hard data from GM as to what was possible as well as what their market research shows.

I can see it now: the big blackboard at the front of the room, adequate refreshment, the GM parts bins open to us...

We could each charge exactly 1 Camaro for our services.

 

Well since you brought it up...

We've also heard rumblings that the Blue Devil Corvette may be called Z07, or Z06R because the Vette crowd is dead against any SS designation on their beloved sportscar. Z06R seems very likely as it would play off the Corvette's racing heritage.

So if GM decides to kill the Z/28 and use their SS designation for every other car in the line, what would the proposed GT500 killer be called... the Camaro SSR?

I can see it now...

Camaro-guy: This is my new Camaro SSR.
Mustang-guy: Where's the (pickup) bed?



Now you see the dilema.

 

Random thoughts related to the subject.

- IMO the Trailblazer absolutely nailed the "SS" formula. Significantly upgraded powertrain end to end, upgraded suspension, brakes, wheels and tires, unique body styling and minor (not enough) interior upgrades. I would hope that formula carries over to the Camaro.
- I"ll be really disappointed if the Camaro "SS" is simply the entry level V8.
- I'd really like to see "standalone" powertrain and handling packages. e.g. Solstice Z0K.
- The Z06 is a $25,000 option .... yet somehow Chevy is supposed to follow that formula for $10,000 to create the Z/28?

 

Exactly....

I truly believe an entry level V8 can and should be a LT or RS version...

I can see some arguing that this would be expensive due to cost sharing concerns for options.

Don't want or need carbon fiber body panels, aluminum frame or magnesium roof structure..... and I'll take my 427 w/o the dry sump oiling system if that saves me a few $$

 

[devils advocate mode]
What if the Camaro SS is the only V8? Seriously.
Why does there need to be more than one V8? Why can't the base model be a V6?
[/devils advocate mode]

IMHO, there needs to be as many flavors of Camaro as there are Mustangs, with each competing in performance and price with their Ford counterparts.

 

I am very surprised that one one has called to verbalize their thoughts. We go into the studio tonight to record the episode that is to be released tomorrow, so you have until about 6pm EST!

 

I have to say that this has turned into one of the most fun threads we've had around here in the past year.

 

JasonE has beat this one to death, but I really believe Chevy is making a HUGE mistake if the Camaro is only offered with an ~300HP HF V6 and an ~425HP LS3 V8 ... especially if they are both "premium fuel recommended".

If, as Scott has stated, there were some buyers that choose a 260HP Mustang over the 300+ HP 4th gen because the 4th gen was "too powerful" what will they say to 400+ HP? I think an AFM 5.3 with a really good sounding exhaust that runs on regular needs to be the entry V8, the LS3 is then a natural for the "SS". After that they can add displacement or a blower for the Z/28.

Some of us are still getting used to this part of the internet.

 

One thing to consider, is that Mustang probably won't have a V8 under 350 hp by then.

As far as adding a blower to a Z/28, I'm with Doug on that - I'd prefer normal aspiration. I wouldn't mind a hotter cammed version of the LS3, (would probably work well with the stick only scenario) along with the requisite intake and exhaust changes.

 

Picking up a telephone and dialing a number? Yeah, not many people here have done that before...