The ZL-1 was a limited production (69 total) aluminum block drag car. They were unique and ultra rare. A better comparison for the big block Shelby would be a Yenko, Dana, Motion Performance, or Nickey Camaro. They were more mass produced than the ZL-1 and had iron block 427s.

The 4th gen ZL-1 was a concept car. GM actually produced limited edition ZL1 aluminum big block crate motors, each sequencially numbered. They were 454 big blocks. (The even had a more limited RAM JET ZL1.) People often confuse the two, but they are not related.

I don't think they need both... and Z28 means a hill of beens more than ZL1 outside these circles.

 

So true. The ZL-1 engine option back in 1969 cost more than the sticker price of the base Camaro it was placed in. Hense a big reason so few were ever produced.

 

Without knowing what engine choices GM has at its disposal, I don't think we can really do SS and Z/28 justice here. So, how about trying to differentiate them visually and by chassis specs?

Anyone got ideas?

 

Chevrolet needed to build 50 to qualify for NHRA's Super Stock class.

Chevrolet built 50 of these specifically for Fred Gibb, a Chevy dealer who wanted to take the Camaro drag racing, and needed the xtra cars to qualify. He figured he could sell them easily. Some other Chevy dealers got wind of this, and also wanted ZL1 Camaros, which Chevrolet built a total of 19 additional ones for them.

There was eventially an agreement between Gibb and GM where GM would buy back most of the vehicles (he only sold 13) the 1st time in automotive history a car maker bought back vehicles.

FWIW: the reason why these cars were sold as strippers is because all were expected to end up on drag strips. The ones Chevy bought back and reinvoiced were dressed up a little.

I know that you're as much a 5.0 fan as I am. But when you consider what's a comprehensive performance package, you have to give credit where it's due.

The 5.0 option included not just an engine with expensive forged internals, high flow alumunum manifolds, and a trick cam not to mention dual intakes, but also a unique suspension that made the car handle far better than it did otherwise. That makes the 5.0 a comprehensive package.

No the LX wasn't as glued down as a 3rd gen Camaro, but ordering a 5.0 wasn't just the engine. It was the suspension as well. Just like the Z28.

I think a better idea would be a 5.3 putting out 6.2 hoursepower numbers.

But when the reality check kicks in, we'd end up spending more money to get the same result with no real fuel economy gain.

But I think a high powered V6 would make a killer RS.

Stripes could be had on an SS too. SS also had those fake snorkles on the hood to which were more gaudy. Unless you got the RS package (with the hidden lights) the Z28 looked a bit more sedate than the SS IMO.

No so fast there.

Z28s 302 was nortoriously weak under 4000 rpm. It was a 327 with a 283 crank, and the torque it made was relatively weak till you revved the begezus out of it.

It most certainly was not quicker than a 396 in the quarter, although Z28 usually had a higher trap speed (reflecting the engine's high RPM performance). The "so called" 325 horse 396 would eat the Z28 alive in 0-60 runs, with the Z taking roughly 1 second longer to 60 mph. Keep in mind there was also a 375 horse 396 also available (which typically bested the Z28 by 1.5 to 2 seconds in 0-60 runs).

Now.... above 100 mph, it was a different story.

ZL1s shouldn't even be part of anyone's discussion. It's an engine whose reputation has run completely away from reality. Only 69 were made. There's backyard customizers that make more specialized cars than that. The only time you see one is on a Barrett Jackson auction, and that's rare. Heck, GM almost makes more prototypes than that of an upcoming vehicles. Yet it comes up in conversation as if it's a real car that ruled the streets. In actuality, it was a car that only rich dragsters bought (13 of 'em), most were returned to GM, and there were still new discounted versions sitting on dealers lots as late as 1972.... 3 years later.

You had a far better chance getting struck by lightning in your bathtub while showering with Catherine Zeta-Jones than you had coming across a ZL1 Camaro on the street.

The L72 427s were the engines that (while still very, very rare) mere mortals had a shot at ever seeing in real life on a real street.

 

I agree. If there were a Camaro V6 with the 3.6 DOHC pushing 255-275 horses, a 6 speed manual, and a performance suspension with good wheels and tires that would probably be my purchase. Resurrect "Y87" maybe?

I'm guessing I probably won't be able to afford a Z28 or SS regardless of which ends up being the top performance model.

 

Whaaaat? The 325 horse 396 could barely break out of the low 15's, bone stock.

I've seen every period road test, and there's considerable variability in times, but suffice to say that the L-35 wasn't really considered a bruiser. But it was a step up from the high 15 second SS350.

As far as 1st gen Z/28 times, I've seen everything from mid 15's to low 12's. You certainly couldn't granny shift them if you wanted an impressive time.

 

I'll have to double check, but I know my Dad got his SS350 into the 12's (after completely re-doing the motor) and I think at that point he could finally pull on Z/28's . Even (stock) SS396's were way behind by that point. Let me try to get some clarification / confirmation on that. I don't like quoting mis-information, but this is real-life experience from about ~1973/75 talking . That was when "street racing" was only "frowned upon", not "banned" and thrown the book at because of . As well, I know my Dad spent almost every weekend at the track in the summer (wish I could say the same for myself ).

 

Actually when Gibb found out the MSRP, he demanded GM take most of them back. Many were recirculated amoung the other hipo Camaro dealers.
BU*****T! The runway stripes only came on the Z/28. The SS got the "bumble" stripe across the nose in 1967 and early 1968. Later in 68 the stripe across the nose hooked and came down the center of the fenders, and in 1969 the SS had the optional hockey stripe. However the double runway stripes that so erroneously get attributed to SS only came on the Z/28 and the 69 Indy Pace car.

WRONG AGAIN! The Z/28 did not merely have a 283 crank. While it shared dimensions it was a hardened crank specific for the Z/28 and only the Z/28.

OLD RELIABLE (a Z/28) was the 1968 NHRA Super Stock World Champ. It ran 11.70s in the 1/4 mile. It was driven by Dave Strickler.

Perhaps you need to retake Camaro History 101.

 

Cool to hear Old Reliable mentioned! Strickler was a friend of my Uncle's as were Jenkins and the rest of the SRD crew. When I was a kid he used to take me up to SRD and I'd watch them build the race cars (pro stock at that time).
There were a couple of acid-dipped Vega bodies that never got used rotting away in the parking lot. I think they were working on Pro-stock Monzas the last time I was there.

 

Just for an idea of what the SS was...
My Dad ordered his '68 SS 396/325hp(L35) Camaro; Corvette Bronze with a black stripe across the nose that came down the sides to the ends of the doors.
And had a black rear facia 2-division brake lights with chrome surrounds, twin chrome vent ports on the flat hood, "SS" emblems on the grille, fenders, and gas cap.
It came with dual exhaust with turbo mufflers, a Muncie 4spd and positraction.
It was a hard-top with a spoiler and Camaro "knock-off" style centercaps on GM ralleyes and skinny Red-Line tires. (Swapped for Uniroyal Super Wide Ovals after a couple of weeks with "near ZERO" traction.) And had multi-leaf springs and staggered shocks, which didn't stop the wheel hop induced by the torquey Big Block, as intended.
Inside; it hade a woodgrain dash center and console wrapped around a "Hurst" shifter and an "SS" steering wheel. It had Black "leather"(?) seats and black carpet, and rest of dash and interior. Roll down 1/4 windows and "no" wing corner window, ofcourse.
After a couple of months of 4500+rpm launches, the cam went flat, the clutch was fried twice necessitating mods..he said it was hard to hook up, really hard.
After a Crane Fireball cam, rejet on the big Holley, and an HD clutch set up plus some slapper traction bars, he was getting air under the front tires regularly!
He road raced many other Camaro's, and said no small block beat him even stock...tho he admitted to never running a 302/HO.
Remember tho, big blocks have bigger everything; intakes, headers, heads, valves, pistons, TORQUE etc...
I've ridden in some fast cars, and his was no joke! Definitely faster than 15 seconds, even stock...
And, not every Z28 came with DZ motors, true?..
Nice article.

 

I see the "SS" as many have said; H.O. drive train, optioned as you like...I just worry about the pricing also, of an all out Z28. If they can keep around GTO's range, I believe they can sell plenty!

 

you mean 4 on the floor like the Z/28? Wasnt that what Reggie Jacksons was? Two prototypes with graphics had been done up for these cars but neither hit production.

A Yenko WAS a ZL-1 The 201 ZL1 Yenkos are not counted in the 1969 69 COPO ZL1 cars. They were COPOs that got Yenko stickers when they got to Don Yenkos lot. Originally he did his own engine swaps but not in 69. So yes that would be a good comparison. Though maybe a better ZL1 comparison would be a Boss 429? I dont know.

False. Thats how you tell a true Z/28. And matching that DZ's partial VIN to the bodys VIN. Its the only way you can. DZ is in the engine code.

 

How many Yenkos had the all-aluminum ZL1 427? They may be COPO cars but not ZL1 cars.

 

OK, but depending on what induction, exhaust option etc., power output varied, not all were 400hp terrors.
Here's some listings I found of engine options:
The 302's were 327's with 283 cranks, 4 inch bore with a 3 inch stroke, and made peak power at 5800rpm.
Also, 302's weren't the only motors underrated...
And to have a "true to original" Z28, we'd have to have a 5.3L that makes like 450hp @ 6800rpm or so, since displacement and weight are major concerns.

 

Not all Yenkos were ZL-1s. Not all ZL-1s were Yenkos. There were no 201 ZL1 Yenkos. Most of the Yenkos were iron block 427s. You need to visit this website and get educated...

http://www.yenko.net/

That is only true for 1969. 1967 Z/28s had engine codes "MO" or "MP" (w/ A.I.R. pump) with the small journal 302. All 1968 Z/28s had engine code "MO".