2QUIK6

Very good advice. Street races will not be won with "lope" at idle. These hard loping cams will make power and win races if launched at high rpms that are close to where their great power band starts...but that is not going to happen on the street with any kind of tires...works great for the track with slicks and sticky track.
I always get a big grin on my face when I pull up to a heavy loping car on the street with my quiet little GN cause I know if they launch it hard enough to be able to beat me they are going to spin the tires up in smoke...if they launch it low then I'm way ahead by the time they reach their power band
I have one of those lopey cams now in the '95 TA and hate it...its coming out real soon

SS MPSTR

Now he's a successful cam and engine builder? I'll ask the same question I've been asking for months - where are all these engines and cams he speaks of and where are the results for these? No bashing, just a question. Kragen Auto Supply satisfies my needs for parts, but they don't make me any faster - isn't that what this is all about? If you claim to be the best, you better have results to back it up. I didn't call him the best - he did that all by himself.

If you guys rely on him or appreciate what he regurgitates on this site, then fine and that's a separate issue altogether. We clearly have different priorities. If you take what he regurgitates and take it for gospel or anything more than what it is - without asking for proof to the pudding, as they say, then I feel sorry for you. Would you let someone install tile in your house without seeing samples or checking references? Operate on your child without qualification? Crack your back without certifcation? Perscribe drugs without license? Why on earth would you take what someone regurgitates on an internet forum as gospel, and defend that point to a fault, without asking the source for some proof to the fantasy?

OK, he's specified a few cams - big deal? A $29 cam program from comp will get you the same thing - what makes him more qualified to use it than you? Does the BRE empire have any real fast cars? Is he being called on by the major players in the performance arena to design cams for them? Has he been tapped by any professional team or organization to build race engines? The answer, whether or not you choose to believe it, is an astounding NO. If there was any credibility to his name and what he 'offers', he would have posted it long ago.

To answer your questions: why do I bash him? I don't really bash - like I said, there are questions that have not been answered and it is hilarious that nobody else has asked, but rather swallowed this fun-pill whole without asking if it was supposed to help you. am I jealous? not a bit. I've never pretended to be omniscient about camshaft theory and I do read what he posts on here, then find it elsewhere posted by others who actually have a performance resume. If I quoted architectural design theory on a relevant site, without actually practicing it, it doesn't automatically qualify me as an expert on the theory. I'd have no built results to substantiate my claims - get my point? arrogant against bret? not sure what you mean - I ask the same question again and again - is that considered arrogant? Should I ask nicer?

I would just like to see an answer to the question, without it being clouded by a bunch on knee-jerk nonesense.

SS MPSTR

The turbo is an unequitable equalizer, especially on the street Fun ride I bet.

SS MPSTR

thanks. I feel better now that you clarified that.

SS MPSTR

I'll take you up on that. How about we just meet up at PRI? That way, we can go around and see if anyone actually knows who BRE is - first hand. Maybe Bret can teach a few of the guys there a few things about camshaft theory or engine building, since the old guys are in the dark anyway.

That's not even the point, but I'll play. I consult folks who actually have a resume of credentials.

SS MPSTR

I've read this five times. What in the world are you trying to say? And how do you spec out a building? Do you mean like picking out a metal building from the Sears catalog and putting it in your backyard? Isn't that like picking out a cam and sticking it in your engine? Sorry, I clearly can't comprehend the point in your post. Who is the vocal spreader of the untruth?

thesoundandthefury

Thankyou.

OldSStroker

I'm flattered that you read a post of mine five times. I edited the original post to read architech.

What is it you do for a living? Perhaps I can relate an explanation to your vocation to clear things up.

SS MPSTR

sanitation engineer. an unemployed one.

OldSStroker

LOL! That explains a lot.

Hey, I'm an unemployed fighter pilot. I guess we can both shovel "**IT" with the best of 'em!

Lookee what I found.

http://www.fquick.com/SSMPSTR

You might update your site, lest you mislead folks.

SStrokerAce

Well I haven't seen it ACUTALLY peak earilier in the RPM range, they will peak exactly when I want them too within 100rpm or

As for the postitives... when you get the overlap right and have the duration and valve events right. Which is what I've been talking about here.

1. Higher Peak TQ value, usually to the tune of 20-30ft lbs.
2. Higher Aveage TQ and HP
3. Not a peaky TQ curve. I always laugh about that one myself, because what you do with a cam to "flatten" the TQ curve is slightly help out the bad areas and knock the peaks out, and you usually knock the peaks down a lot more than help out the holes when you try and fix it with cam. The real problem is the intake and exhaust lengths that are causing the "holes"
4. PEAKING HP EARLIER!!!! When a CC-306 has to be reved to 6500+rpm to work how is a earlier HP peak (if that happens) a bad thing on a stock bottom end?


ANYWAYS.... this next part shows where your confusion in this whole deal is:Engine vacuum is also very predictable and one of the variables with that is static compression. BUT we are talking about a cam that idles like a CC306, and has the SAME overlap. Idle vacuum is the only reason I have found for blower cams to have a wide LSA, but what do I know? I've had many customers ask me about what the idle vacuum will be, or what they are shooting for and I usually get calls later on saying they are amazed that it's EXACTLY what I told them it would be. Happened earlier this year with a 850+rwhp LS1 street car!

You need to revise a few things on this list though, mostly because you are screwing up valve events and you WILL confuse people doing this...

EVC and IVO are what relates to piston to valve clearance, not EVO and IVC.

The EVO and IVC has no effect on lift specs either, if you have a set amount of .050" duration and MORE lift your ramps are more aggressive (given the same lobe shape) and that will decrease your advertised duration and give you more P to V clearance at the same centerline.

EVO is what changes how long your cylinder pressure stays in the cylinder. Not a "early EVC"

IVC is not at all related to overlap or reversion, that's IVO. IVC is the valve event that is related to DCR, easy way to remember where it's placed. If you move the IVC later and keep the same OVERLAP as we have talked about your duration will increase, which is opposite of what I was talking about.

Again, what you are doing is confusing opening and closing events, which is why you aren't getting what I'm saying here. I think your looking at a cam diagram and turning the cam backwards!!!! So fix that part in your head and go back over this and you will see your problems here.

I agree, don't pick a cam ONLY on sound. BUT what i'm telling you is that on a LT1 you can have a nice lope, good idle vaccum, a easy to drive TQ curve, MORE TQ, MORE HP, MORE AVERAGE TQ & HP. You seem to think it's impossible, I'm telling you it's not. Actually, speed_demon24 has a great example of this in his car.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498708

All I really did is add the right amount of overlap in the right places to his GM846 and he picked up .3 and 4mph.... I guess it doesn't work?

Bret

SS MPSTR

Hey! I'm an unemployed fighter pilot too! What level on Wings of War did you get to? I got to defcon level 10, but then the Playstation broke

I lied to you - surely that's not the first time someone has done that to you. And what a find - between fireside Mark Twain reading and chatting with the kids, you found the fquick linked in my profile. Way to go, sleuth I suspect you knew my profession even before asking - the BRE el presidente knows it.

And no, misleading folks is telling them you have a resume of experience when you have none, not being a smart-*** when answering a question that has no meaningful relevance.

IN all seriousness, there is no offense intended in the first paragraph - if you served, you have my respect. It only served to illustrate my point of 'saying' you do something with no real experience, and actually doing it. If you really served and flew, you'd chastise guys who claimed to be pilots by flying in simulators only, right?

We're still on for a beer at PRI, right?

vilkata

OldSStroker

I don't lie. Yeah, and I fight for Truth, Justice and the American Way!

FWIW: My CV:

Degreed automotive engineer, USAF fighter pilot '68-'76, own a precision manufacturing business including race engine parts for various customers. Engineering consultant to engine builder(s).

Actually I'd only correct someone who said things that I know to be incorrect. I really don't care if they are posers or not. It's that they are misleading folks by spouting BS that irks me. Bret has a lot of that in him.

I've known a bunch of automotive engineers and a few engine builders. I have a fair idea of how engines work. I'm probably Bret's harshest critic when it comes to engineering isues, believe it or don't. When I hear him in a detailed theory-level discussion of GM engine design with folks like Ron Sperry (@PRI) and other motorsports engineers, I see that he has credibilty with them. It's not important to me if you give him credence or not. I just thought you might be interested.

Make mine Pappy Van Winkle 20 yr bourbon...on your tab.

urbaNHunter44

Wow this thread went to hell.

Seems to me that Bret knows his stuff alot better than others here though, and I'd like to say I'm a decent judge of character. He strikes me as busy as well (with what I don't know), as I tried to get a cam from him back around the 4th, he said he would do it and then didn't get back to me. Busy I suppose.

I wonder where the OP went?