thanks for the info ill be sure to follow! wish me luck

 

Originally Posted by 12SCNDZ
"These are pictures that show what happens if you use a converter with no lock-up damper in it. Yes, this drum had been previously modified with a steel sleeve, and modified over-run piston. As you can see, it didn't fail at the spline part of the drum, it ripped the whole center out."
The picture you are showing (the breakage of the input drum) is most likely to have been caused by the installation of the HD steel sleeve, not supported by the shaft. If the drum is "not" supported by the "shaft", instead of the drum itself when you install the HD steel sleeve, you can crack or break the drum where you see it is broken. Chances are that when the sleeve was installed, he cracked the drum, which lead to the eventual breakage/failure seen here. I have seen this a few times over the years when it was pressed on wrong. The use or non use of a "dampner" spring setup in the torque converter will not cause what you see. The dampner setup has to do with lockup only, and nothing else.

 

You're very wrong about this. This will only happen when a non dampened convereter is used. I've seen it happen several times, and all hads no damper. The shock of the lock-up clutch applying sends too much stress down the input shaft, to the input drum. I've also seen non dampened converters break input shafts in some units.
I've discussed this with atleast 3 very knowledgeable converter builders. All agree that the deletion of the lock-up damper is what causes this breakage.

Again...This isn't speculation or opinion. It's based on FACTS.

Frank
CPT

 

OMG.....Your kidding!!! ..... right Frank?? Dave

 

These TC builders, Kris at Continental, Terry at Precision Industries, Andre at Edge, will tell you that the dampner assembly is for the smoothness of lockup, and that is it. One of Precision Industries TC's is for a diesel that does not have the dampner for their lockup, and it is one of their "stouter" designs, & he has others. Kris at Continental, the same for some of his designs. They all say that it is a smoother engagement of the TC clutch to use the dampner, but all "agree" that it would not break the input shaft, as the clutch area is too small, and the rpm drop is minimal, when compared to a 2-3 WOT shift for example.

 

What are you all refering to as a damper? in the end of input shaft?

 

What didn't break in my 4l60E? 4L60E=Junk

 

Built LT1 = MISINFORMED.....

Frank
CPT

 

i know of 5-6 4L60E's with trans brake's in them doing just fine no reports of breaking yet

 

I bougth 2 rebuld it from ebay, oregon performance transsmisions. Those kit has the Alto Eagle 3-4 9 disc powerpack.

We Instaled on 94 TA and 97 Camaro with Trango kit, and both has the same problem. We burned the new disc, one least 2 month ando the other 6 weeks.

I have been reading this tread, but my english is not very good. But I understud the problem could be someting with the TransGo ore some springs.

Do I am right? What do I should to tell to the guy who is doing the job?

HZ

Sorry for my english guys, hope I can made me clear.

 

The Alto (Red lined clutches) 9 pack, does not do well in these units, as I and many other builders have seen in teardowns over the years. The Trans-Go Performance Shift kit installed "as is", if installed correctly, does help some in terms of performance or longevity over stock, but there is nothing in the kit "except" installing all "three" 2nd gear accumulator spacers that could do any harm to the transmission, which could cause sunshell (spline) breakage, 2-4 band anchor breakage, from a "way too firm" 1-2 part throttle shift. The "modified" version that I use will do quite a lot, in terms of performance or longevity, but the transmission must have "good" quality 3-4 clutches, and in general be in reasonable shape. I have never seen these kits "hurt" a unit, again if installed correctly. Many people use these kits as a "band aid" in order to solve all kinds of issues with this unit, and then the kit gets blamed for everything under the sun, as to why "their" transmission "failed", from the installation of the "Shift Kit". Do you think that I could use these kits (in "everything" that I have built) for over 28+ years, and do well, if these kits were so "harmful".......think about it, its not possible.

 

I have taken the time to read all that has been posted on this subject in this "sticky". This is some very interesting reading. I'm no professional transmission builder, but I do understand them to a degree. I would like some help and advise in understanding my problem with this trany.

This vehicle had been driven fine for 59,000 miles. Then the Vehicle was removed from storage this spring. Transmission fluid serviced 1000 miles before stored for winter. When removed from storage this spring, accelerating from 1st to 2nd, 2nd will slip for about .5 to 1 second delay and then surge in to gear like normal at half throttle. From dead stop, throttle wide open shift is mostly very normal.(surge in to gear and rotate tires, nice) At 45 to 55mph ( + or - 5 mph ) and crusing, then appling wide open throttle causes down shift to 2nd gear with transmission slipping to 5500 rpm and .5 to 1 sec delay and surge into gear causing very low traction and very large surge. This is real neat, but I would like to fix before transmission falls apart. GM serviced transmission 1 week ago with "performance automatic transmission service" new fluid and filter hopeing for sticky compontent(s) would loosen up. I am knowledgable with auto and transmission repair, and would rather spend the money doing it my self with quality(better) parts than stock. I just don't know which part(s) is most likely to be causing the problem.

If anyone has tips for the scheduled tear down as for what to look for with problem, any advise would be much apreciated.

2000 pontiac firebird formula/transam LS1 w/ws6 package, 4 speed automatic.

Thanks guys!

Matt

 

I gotta say that I am a terrible trouble shooter. If it were me, I'd take it apart and look at everything, replace all the soft parts and anything else not up to spec. So, I'd help if I could. But I think you have better luck with a separate post, most people are using this thread as a reference and I wonder how many will see your post?

Rich

 

What are you all refering to as a damper? in the end of input shaft?

 

The Damper I'm referring to is a spring type "cushion" in the torque converter, itself.

Frank
CPT