as much as twin pipes exiting on both sides of the car seems more american,i heard the car on the ESPN auto show special,and the car sounds incredible,who cares what side they come out when it sounds so good.i still don't like the styling,scoops wouldn't save it,it might help,but IMO scoops wouldn't make me change my mind.so,if pontiac basically tells the GTO purists to stick it and the younger crowd who didn't grow up worshiping the goat and who may see far many all-around better performance choices for the money don't like it,who's going to buy it ?

 

Derek, you do me a favour and go take one for a test drive, it doesn't need to be saved.

A Car that a pleasure to sit in comfort drive long distances , has LS1 power, IRS... seats 4 in comfort and will more than likely spank most mustangs, other than cobra, which is supercharged.


click on this link and show me how this car with 340RWHP needs to be saved in the looks dept.

http://www.micro-op.com.au/execls1/nm.mpeg

 

I would like to take a moment to address you guys who are spouting trash about Coletti.

First - I am not his best friend, on his payroll, nor ever even talked with the guy 1on1, so I am not going to be his "defender" due to any loyalties.

Second - the guy is an actual "car guy" who pulled a good deal of seat time in several race cars, including top-fuelers. So at least he DOES have a genuine passion for performance cars, not purely as an "arm-chair" racer and certainly not as a bean-counter.

Third - we all know he likes to talk-up a good game. He has a rep for that stuff, big deal.

Now that the disclaimers are all done, let's get to the meat of my post...
Get this straight - AUTOWEEK came to him for his comments on the appearance of the Mustang on the GTO website - Coletti DID NOT go to them. It is my opinion that when a guy's opinion is solicited, it may be given without reservation.

Now granted, he could have been more tactful and not made the Cavi/Camaro comment, saying instead he "didn't like the way they did the car, borrowing drivetrains and using corporate styling that simulated the current GP/GA." But again - Autoweek came to him, not the other way around. So in a way, "they asked for it", especially knowing his reputation. All I can say is that he didn't disappoint them - they wanted "juice" in a little story, and he gave them some!

Give the guy a little credit - he was minding his own business, got asked for a comment on the pic-thing, and spoke his mind - just like he was asked to do. He got 28 whole words in on a 1200-word article... BIG WHOOP.

So all I'm saying here is, you guys who keep bashing the fellow need to understand what happened and why. It's perfectly acceptable to disagree with his comment, and I'd love to hear why, but keep it professional and drop the whining.
Thanks.

 

I LIKE THE POWER AND REFINED IMAGE THAT THE MONARO HAS.
Let that be clearly known, and I DO plan to rent or at least drive one as soon as possible for curiosity's sake. I'm sure I will be impressed - every one else has been.

Now, that being said/understood, as far as comparing the GTO to the Cobra for $35k values... I could reciprocate the comment to you guys claiming the "superior interior" thing of the GTO - I challenge YOU to go test drive the '03 Cobra, and look at the interior quality of this car. This is not the same '86 Mustang with plastic interior and wood-grain stickers you may have in your thoughts. The brushed suede inserts on the fine leather seats, the detailed embroidery, the trim level, switch, button, and latch sensory, visual and physical ergonomics, seat position/comfort, sound system/acoustics, everything right down to the quality of the glass was far better than I have ever seen in a factory Mustang. Almost EVERY mag article has made note of just how quiet this car is when driving - almost disappointingly quiet for some. NVH numbers are lower, and the overall fit/finish is greatly improved. The engine is detailed like you would do a street rod for Chrissake! The guys who built your engine have chemically etched their signatures into a chrome and gold "Romeo Engine Plant" data plate on the valve cover. Like GTO, the Cobra HAS the IRS too - big deal. All accounts are that it handles like a dream, even encroatching a little on Z-06 territory. We've all read the posts and articles.

Now I'll admit that it may not have quite the same level of refinement as the Monaro, but the Cobra will not be "shamed" by the Monaro in this area. And as for the "go-button"... well, I read about an unmodified '03 that just laid down 400.3 RWHP after several thousand "break-in" miles - the dyno sheet was published in the mag doing the article. (Let's talk "under-rated"...) They added ONLY Bassani X-pipe and Air filter and found 35 more ponies - that was the crux of the article. I personally feel that these cars are not targeting the same market, but if you want to put apples to apples... it's all fair game.

So again, lighten-up a little on the Cobra comps. It's doing it's own thing and it's doing it well. This flame war is getting VERY old now - it's been almost a year. I have yet to see any '03 Cobra owners post lines like "I can't wait to bust a new GTO" or "I'm glad that GTO-owner has a superior interior - he can enjoy the view of my taillights in comfort". Just the opposite seems true, the Cobra owners I have spoken with and posted with seem VERY mature, and appreciate the cars (GTO included) for what they are and what they can do.

Besides, I think the Cobra wants a Z/28 to play with anyhow, not a GTO...

 

I'm not going to debate you on this. I'll just wait till you get into the new GTO, then I'll let you compare it to the Cobra.

 

Original GTO was a mid-sized coupe dressed up with more power...New GTO is a mid-sized coupe with more power. Anyone who says that the car is a disappoitment because it don't have hood scoops is smoking crack....that simple. This is the same group that would jump all over the import crowd for wanting scoops of a Civic. They do nothing but add looks...plus I am pretty sure if you want them that bad HSV will have them. Retro has yet to turn out a car that sold well after its first year or two...so GM has taken the right road here IMO.

As for Coletti's comment, that is like Dave Hill saying the current Cobra is nothing but a Lightning motor on an old Fairmont Chassis....I know its an ignorant comment...but just as ignorant as Coletti's

 

Proud: relax man. I went though and re-read the article. No one is blasting the Cobra and Coletti deserved all the disrespect he's getting. When was the last Camaro to have IRS and be built on the VE platform? I cant remember. Looks are opinion based so I cant say anything about that comment from him, but its just assinine to say it's built on a Camaro platform even if it is a heat of the moment thing. Remember you're on Camaroz28.com, as a Ford guy - and with the respect you bring - you know how thick of a skin you have to have. Yes, the Cobra is going laying down mad HP numbers I dont think you'll find anyone on the board that will say they're disappointed with the numbers. But the fact remains, when you sit the Cobra, and before you ask - yes I have - anywhere you want you can reach out and touch cheap plastic. No company can go out and offer a 400 rwhp car with an excepitional interior and a world-class suspenion for $35k, even if they are moving 170k of them a year. Pick two of the three and you have a $35k car.

 

I have yet to sit in a GTO (have seen it in person), but I have sat in the Cobra and I was anything but impressed with the quality of materials. Not '86 quality, but certainly not comparable to other cars you can get for $35,000 or even low to mid-$20k. Sure, there aren't any other new cars in that price range doing 11/12 sec ETs. Then again, there are probably project Mustangs pulling those numbers with the same cheap interior and costing a lot less.

The GTO is not going to come anywhere near the Cobra's acceleration (at least for '04)--there is no question about that. But to reduce the comparison to a quarter mile: price comparison is ridiculous. As stated, go check out the car when they hit showrooms.

 

Yeah! Just like Mr. Colletti has done!

At the very least, John-boy's comment was ignorant for the reasons Chuck has already mentioned. And as far as Cobra interior quality being the best you've ever seen in a Mustang....well, there's still a difference between being a top-notch Mustang interior and being an industry top-notch interior. I sat in a Cobra at NAIAS. Not bad, nicer than the last of the F-bodies, sure. Most magazines have pointed out the flaws, it still uses run-of-the-mill plastics and I STILL can't get over how rediculously ill-positioned the shifter is for a "driver's" car. The Aussies have been around both cars (since Cobras have been available down under) and they claim that the Cobra's interior is quite laughable compared to even some of the cheapest Holdens. That's a decent testament to me.

Overall at $35,000 I don't think either car is overpriced. That money gets you a *****-out street racer and good handler with good exclusivity in the Cobra, and what GTO initially lacks in go-power (compared to Cobra) is made up for in much higher refinement, practicallity and even better exclusivity. It won't exactly be slow either. It just depends on what is more important to you (or as this thread demonstrates, where your loyalties lie).

 

You caught my disclaimer, right? J/K!
I don't doubt the GTO is even higher in refinements than the Cobra - not a bit. In fact I would be disappointed if it weren't after all the hype.

But what's good for the goose is good for the gander...
You (and many others, especially our pals from Oz) are trying to say that the new Monaro's interior is far better than the old Commodore's - and I beleive you guys.
Likewise, I'm saying the new Cobra's interior is FAR BETTER than any Mustang's interior I've seen to date (save aftermarket.tuners like Saleen). THAT"S ALL I'M SAYING.

I pledge to give the GTO a go when it gets here...
Likewise I'm challenging the naysayers to give the Cobra a go too. It's not the Flintstone-mobile...

From Tom Scarpello, marketing and sales manager for Ford’s Special Vehicle Team,"Our customers want a more distinctive, recognizable Cobra," said Scarpello. "It’s the top of the Mustang line, and also Ford’s flagship performance car. So we put more emphasis on exterior differentiation and on interior touches that set it apart."

Inside, new front bucket seats are designed to provide enhanced support for both comfortable cruising and spirited driving. Seating surfaces have Nudo leather trim and Preferred suede inserts. The driver’s seat has standard six-way power, plus new power-adjustable thigh and side bolsters, and power lumbar support. Switches for these new controls are in an easy-to-reach location on the right-front corner of the seat.

The instrument cluster, with titanium-color gauge faces, has been redesigned to include a boost gauge, and features electroluminescent lighting".

Here's the leather/suede seats...
guage pod and dash...

I've said it before and I'll say it one more time...
This Cobra has taken more crap and had more fuss made over it than any car I can recall in my life. It has been compared to everything from a Ferrari to a Volkswagen to a Vette to a Viper. I take it until I get a belly full, then I have to vent. Some can't let it go...
Sorry for the rant.

 

Car and Driver Tested an HSV Commodore against a BMW M5 a year or two ago....Don't see anything with a blue oval getting tested against Bimmer

 

Chuck, I agree with most of your post. Thanks for the chill-pill.

You're right - the article said NOTHING about the Cobra... THAT'S MY POINT! It was brought up in the thread in some lame comps. I DID let it go for a while, but I just keep seeing the undeserved comparisons and it gripes me. Just because a car is "fast", it gets comped to "all fast cars", or "all $35k cars should be comped together"... it's just wrong - you get my drift.

In the sense that Coletti could have made the statement "No Comment", or "I'm flattered" instead of his usual smart@$$ replies - I'll agree that he must take some heat too. But when we cast our stones, remember - [i]he didn't arrange for the picture-thing, nor did he ask for the interview. Fair enough? Some act like that WAS the article...

Z, that was all I was saying... was that it was the best Mustang interior I've seen - nothing more. I think you got my drift - thanks.

PS - I didn't see what Coletti said as "whining". Egging... jabbing... stabbing... yeah. Whining, no. What has he got to be whining about?

Again, who's point are you making here? That's EXACTLY what I'm saying... the Cobra doesn't belong in those types of comps IMO. Neither does the Mustang GT or the Camaro (in spirit). So why do people continue to bring the car into every thread about everything from vettes and vipers to Lighnings and SRT's?!?!
Give the car a break for Pete's sake!

Now... I've said my peace and I am ready to drop this little sidebar on SVT personnel and products...
Back to the topic PLEASE ---->
No GTO in the GTO website Pic of the Week...

 

Quite honestly Ford has never really defined where the Cobra sits. They talk like they wanna take on the Vette, yet when quality come sup they say they aren't in that market. Then they say they want affordable performance..and you mention $35K isn't really that affordable and they talk of going after the Corvette and all. Pretty much I think Ford has streached the Mustang to thin...from a base V6 rental car to a cobra that can run with Corvettes. It is hard to give it a presence in any one area.

 

So where is the GTO marketed?
There was a whole thread/poll on that last week and I don't recall a direct answer there either.

Maybe there is a lack of clear market definition these days... it's more of a "take what you can get" approach.

 

GTO is marketed at people who have money to spend and want an upper class performance coupe. I think there will also be alot of sentimental purchasers. If Ford happens to price the Mustang Cobra in the same range as the GTO then they will somehow fall into direct competion. The GTO will make more like 370HP even though it is rated at 340 like most LS1 cars so there isn't a huge power difference. Either way at $35,000 what do you think people would want 20-50 more HP or a interior leaps above the Cobra, better handling and stopping, and interior space that makes the Mustang look like a Geo.

The Monaro and Commodore are very competent performance platform from the beginning. The current Mustang Cobra is a boy modified to do mans work