I'm reaching in deep here, but would like to offer an "outsider's view... So far, I am all alone on this one. Here goes...

Frankly, I am surprised that I got so worked-up over this topic. I was ripped after reading that article for several reasons - Coletti being the least of them actually - we all know he loves to stink-it-up with words, so who's surprised.

I think it is a very blatantly crude thing to do posting the Mustang in the site's front door. Yes, definitely a slap in the face. They could have made their point just as emphatically and less rudely by simply boycotting the "Picture of the Week" and putting NOTHING there in protest of the new GTO's looks.

I think the GTO is gonna be a great car - no doubt. That is not the issue with me at all.
But as I have debated with many in this forum - Would it not be just as great if it were called the Pontiac Monaro? Then you would not have had all the link and history issues that are creating this negative buzz. Instead of "reinventing" the old GTO, why not invent a new name? Same amount of work, so what's to lose? The traditional GTO owners would not be offended, the Monaro designers would not be offended, and those in the middle wouldn't care anyways.

I agree with prior "posters" that Lutz and crew should make a pop-in to this board and others from time to time and express that "he is listening", regardless of his opinion, path forward, plans, or concerns. A devoted ear could do wonders for comforting the loyals and it wouldn't take him but 2 minutes a week to make a bunch of us as giddy as teenage girls at a rock concert. Honestly. Kudos to RP and a few others for doing so.
BTW, Other company execs ARE doing this...

And here's what bothers me (personally) the most...
From the article... Lutz noted that “dyed-in-the-wool old-line GTO [fans] are disappointed it’s a non-retro-themed car with few throwback GTO cues,” but he argued that wasn’t what GM set out to do with the car. “We wanted a modern interpretation, with a really slick chassis to go along with a big engine,” Lutz wrote. “We really would like to draw new customers, rather than traditionalists.”

WHO THE F<@K IS WE ????
REALITY CHECK HERE PARTNER - the CUSTOMER is the one BUYING the car, not GM Execs!

I have asked 783,698 times now, for someone to tell me who, outside of GM's marketing group, wanted to resurrect the GTO name in this way and on that car? It really frustrates me that GM is so capable of producing great cars, with styling, power, and panache, but they give you what they want you to have, not necessarily what you might want. If you like what they offer, great - your all set! If you don't, they don't seem to give a sh1+ ---> END OF STORY.

"WE" beancounters want a cheap car that needs no development money and uses existing parts...
"WE" management-types want a cheap car that has great margins and ROC...
"WE" marketing guys want a car that's desireable and can sell itself with little or no advertising needed...
"WE" manufacturing managers want a car that is easily assembled with low labor on existing tooling...
"WE" dealers want a car we can "load-up", move and make money on...
and so on. There is your "WE" in Lutz's picture. The customer is not involved in the picture until it's time to get out the wallet. He even says himself in the next sentence... “We really would like to draw new customers, rather than traditionalists.” This clearly shows that the "customer" is NOT INCLUDED in his "WE" categories.

And "we really would like to draw new customers, rather than traditionalists"!?!?! OMG!!! REALLY???
THERE is where you GM-loyal guys stand in the corporate eye. Apparently they already have you "in the bag", so pi$$ on you now, they're after the next guy, or girl, or whomever.
How can you even begin to question the intended meaning of that statement? I mean, I'm all for EXPANDING your market, but don't forget/ignore the ones who got you where you are.

Then look at the Mustang and what role the customer plays...
One MUST wonder how Ford manages to sell 170k units/year, and have the show-stopper at Chicago and NAIAS, huh?

Sorry for the rant.
Sorry for the GM-bashing.
Love the car that has been mis-named the 2004 GTO.
Love to see Camaro back as a class-act ponycar with full support.
Love to see car-lovers appreciated by the mouths their passion and $ feeds.

Proud

 

See, this is what I mean!

Those here who don't like something, tend to explain why or at least what it is they don't like. Myself, I know my taste in cars tends to be very low keyed compared to most everyone else here (I tend to drive fast, and appriciate the lack of unwanted attention ), so I understand perfectly the view of those who want more "flash".

When the issue becomes retro, I feel the need to point out that GTO traditionally has no "look" because it's been whatever Pontiac's mid size car was at the time. But as I always say, design is subjective. But I won't slam an otherwise good car simply because of styling. The current Mustang GT is one example of that (to me). I don't like the creased & folded paper design of it, but it is very very quick, and is overall a really good package. I wouldn't buy one (though the Mach1 does look pretty good, and the Bullitt isn't too bad!), but I'm not calling it garbage or junk either.

I guess the fact that a so called GTO site, despite HAVING a car (unlike us over here), that is turning out to be faster than ever, and having well above average worksmanship, turns it's backs on the car for the most trivial thing about a new car, and posts the competition. You would think that the GTO's comming back as a 4 cylinder, automatic tranny only Sunfire hatchback.

I feel as long as CamaroZ28.com (despite having a discontinued car with no announced return in sight) displays and worships F-bodies without feeling the need to post someone else's car as the picture of the week, UltimiteGTO.com to me from here on out is UltimiteSellout.com.

This is from a guy who actually LIKES the new Mustang!

 

my opinion is this, gm pretty much hit the nail on the head as far and performance, it is fast, but within reason, i know alot of people would rather the ls6, but then that would leave out the corvette unless it is getting a new engine/drivetrain (any hints from certain parties?), but styling is just not great, if you like what a grand prix/alero looks like then go for it, but right now i can't see it being a car that will be able to put money in gm's pocket

 

This picture says everything I have tried to say in the past........notice anything "missing" on the new car??

http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_046490

duckin' & runnin'..........

 

The ONLY common theme with all the GTOs in that picture (except one) is the hood scoops.

If that's all it takes, then OK, I'll give ya that!

 

Wow--Coleti sounds like a ****--but he is proably paid to say bad things about GM.

Those "GTO" traditionalists (losers) can walk too.
Gm had many, many FWD V6 "GTO" concepts over the years, quite a few based of Grand Am. At least the drivetrain is right--and it still is anice looking car.


Oh and Pontaic "Monaro" is no good. GTO has a rep, people have heard of it...at sometime over the years. They'd have to put alot into advertising just to educate people.

 

I can't stand Colletti! He needs to shut his mouth. You don't see any GM (or any other for that matter)exec going off about how damn slow the Mustang was and how it can't get out of it's own way, ect. What kind of a person does **** like that?

 

wow,some of you guys take things too seriously!so he talks alittle trash,big deal,he's a drag racer,alittle bench racing never hurt anybody,the whole internet is made up of bench racing and bitching and moaning and talking trash about anybody's car other than your own.unlike most sterile car company guys or just about anybody nowadays,he isn't afraid to **** somebody off.it's refreshing.
if i was cranking out exciting cars and my main competition wasn't doing anything to compete one-on-one with the lightning or SVT focus or mustang,i'd talk some trash too!maybe alittle prodding would snap GM out of its lameness,maybe if we got the dodge SRT guys to making fun of GM too,GM would produce something cool out of embarrassment.

 

GM knows its better. They let F*rd make fools of themselves and laugh at them behind the scenes. (and they've had lots to laugh at over the years) Although, going back and forth is fun. I'd still like to see GM say some stuff too.

Now for the GTO. It is plain alright and it is boring alright, it lacks style, flash, looks like a Grand Prix/Am, and has caused controversey, but I'm still gonna be glad to see them on the streets. I mean it is a GM musclecar called GTO, it will make things more exciting. But, B.L. needs to understand that the car needs hood scoops THIS year and not 05. Some1 mentioned how GM does not listen anymore as good as F*rd does, and I agree to an extent, but I feel it is and will get better.

 

I've been a supporter of the new GTO and while being excited about the capabilities of the car, I can see how some may be disappointed in what basically comes down to a lack of hoodscoops.

With this omission a known issue to BL and other GM decision makers (thus it being addressed in '05), why not offer a fix for this glaring omission for the '04s? Saying all HSV products will be available for the GTO is something, but why not just equip the car with an HSV hood before it even arrives on these shores? I'm sure it's less productive and more expensive than the current plan, but it is not too different than what was being done with the Camaro SS and Firehawk through SLP.

Without a doubt, the '04 GTO will be a terrific car and much needed shot in the arm for the performance enthusiasts in this camp, but I don't see why more attention couldn't be paid to not alienate the owners and enthusiasts of the originals, especially when it all amounts to a hood. Five years or even one year from now, it's not going to be so big a deal. But why leave the door open for the press and fansites to create a negative buzz and hinder the launch of such a cherished and important nameplate?

 

GM needs a good smack in the face occasionally.

It is the only thing that can bring so insular a car company back to reality at times.

So, I'm gonna vent here...

1) The Silverado SS is a huge mistake. Go big or go home. The Lightning should have been the target from the word "GO", and Chevy should have sent them packing with a blown LQ9 or LS1.

2) Give the GTO a damned hood scoop BEFORE IT LAUNCHES. Put it in the wrong place like the were on the first generation (a middle of the hood scoop is generally relatively ineffective, cowl induction works better, but doesn't look as cool). Do it NOW.

3) The SSR could be the dumbest thing on wheels. A +$40,000 turd with the wrong motor. Completely wasted energy that would have been better spent on a Camaro replacement.

4) Where's the Camaro replacement? Knuckleheads. The program should never have been allowed to lapse. Shoot the people that let it happen.

5) Bring out a Chevelle off of the Monaro/GTO platform. Give it an LS6. It better have 400hp.

6) CTSv is a good idea. It better have 400hp.


Bob and the boys need to take their lumps and come back swinging. Shut Coletti up with horsepower.

DARE Ford to try and compete in performance. Ford should be more worried about going under than taking shots at Camaro anyway...


The next Corvette better kick the ever-living **** out of the Ford GT40 and Viper.

 

Aww, come on. It isn't like some of you guys haven't BS'd about the Ford vs Chevy rivalry. How many of you would change your opinions or attitude just because you were a GM executive? Coletti is a real "car guy" and a Ford guy at that who heads Ford's SVT performance division. Naturally, some Sh** talking in the name of friendly competition is to be expected. If i recall, he's been urging (and begging it seems) for GM to repond to the Cobra and Lightning. He may be doing GM faithful's a BIG favor because MOSS and Lutz (2 other car guys) are seeing this too and will want to do something about it (or we're hoping they will). Coletti's a break from the typical exec. It's good to see someone that serious about performance for a change.

 

I actually like John Coletti. He talks alot of smack, but yet, he's got the best job in the world.

He runs a performance division. He has autonomy. His division is making a tidy profit. He not only has the backing of the company, but has the enthusiastic backing of the guy that has his name on the building (despite that guy being a virtural ecologist), and the bean counters leave him alone because his division costs relatively little money vs what the earn.

The only problem is he works for the other guys. I know every single one of you secretly wishes he worked for Chevrolet or Pontiac.

 

YES he is... his "pay" is his huge SALARY that Ford is paying him to develop fast, sporty, niche cars that deliver the goods. The more attention he can draw to them, the better for him, his wallet, and FoMoCo. And with a 400hp Cobra, a 500hp Lightning (both UNDER-rated), and the SVT Focus, and celebrating the 10th year of SVT this year, and hot stuff like the 5.4 BOSS and 427 engines still coming down the tubes, I wouldn't say he's doing much wrong at this point.

Just wondering... Do you respect your parents? Grandparents? Or are they (losers) too because they are old and may not share your opinion on everything?

And thank God they all died before they infected our streets too or the GTO moniker would have already been reduced to the level of Nova and Malibu!

Agreed. I think we said that.
I just think it was named wrong.

BINGO!!! Give my man the $64!!!
GM knew exactly what you just said was true, so they "pimped" the GTO name onto the car for "guaranteed interest". Whoring-out the heritage of a legend should not be a whimsical thing, IMO.

Follow with me one more time...
If the Monaro is as good a car as we all think it will be, it will be more than capable of creating it's own legendary following.
It won't need to crutch off of some existing legend.

Why sh1+ on the loyal guys who made the GTO legendary to begin with?
I just don't uderstand the "screw-them" attitude at all.
Aren't we all supposed to be "car guys"? And FWIW, not ALL lovers of the "old" GTO are "OLD". I know several guys in their 20's that love them - and even OWN them, along with their '90's model Camaros, T/A's, Monty's, Bonny's, and such. To me, THESE GUYS are the real, open-minded, car-loving guys that the hobby needs.

305fan, sorry if this came off a little harsh, but I just fail to see the motivation behind your rhetoric. Picture back in the early sixties... if Pontiac had never put a "new" name on the high-performance Tempest-offering, we'd not be discussing the legendary GTO today. They gave it a new name then, and it made it's own following. Why can't it be done that way again?

 

The problem with Coletti's remarks are that they aren't close enough to being accurate to even make sense. Cavalier??? The Mustang has some Cavalier styling cues. Camaro chassis??? Nothing could be farther from the truth. Catera chassis maybe, but Camaro? This car (04 GTO) is going to be so much better than ANYTHING Ford sells (or GM, for that matter) in the U.S., he's just trying to get his shots in before folks over here actually DRIVE one. The Aussies actually laughed themselves silly when they first experienced the 03 Cobra... Lots of power, yeah, but the quality of materials and assembly was pathetic by their standards. Speed alone doesn't make one car better than another. Many things make up a great car. I, personally, am glad there won't be any hood scoops on the 04 car... and I'm hoping they will have a rear spoiler delete option, too (not holding my breath, though). I think the styling is subdued and classy. You can always ADD stuff (scoops, etc.), it's alot harder to REMOVE tacked-on crap.