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John Coletti on new GTO

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Old Mar 26, 2003 | 08:18 PM
  #106  
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Originally posted by mako
Actually Company yes, fellow no.

in the year the Cobra didn't make it's horse power the building of them were taken out of their hands and put into "Team Mustangs" hands. From what i've heard there was a problem with how they installed the exaust systems that caused most of the trouble, after that they wernt sent back to SVT under Collettie's control again.
There was ALOT more then just exhaust issues.Heads,Intake,pistons,catback were the issues.
Ive read many times over that the problem came from out of spec parts from suppliers.What I was told was they could of fixed the problem with just pistons due to the over sized combustion chambers on the 99 heads.
Old Mar 26, 2003 | 08:29 PM
  #107  
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Originally posted by Derek Smalls
proudpony,
was the first cobra II not a model year '76?how many of those mustang II and early fox cobras did they make?there can't be many of those cars left around,especially the '79-'81.it's off-topic but the thread died anyway.
From 1974-78 Ford sold 1,207,418 Mustang II's (and people call them ugly!)

From 1979-81 Ford sold 735,682 "early" FOX bodies

Side note:The King Cobra II was an apperance package nothing more nothing less.
(look good IMHO)
Old Mar 26, 2003 | 08:36 PM
  #108  
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virtual test drive of a GTO... he he im sure your pulse will be racing - click on this video 12.2sec
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 08:04 AM
  #109  
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Originally posted by Derek Smalls
proudpony,
was the first cobra II not a model year '76?how many of those mustang II and early fox cobras did they make?there can't be many of those cars left around,especially the '79-'81.it's off-topic but the thread died anyway.
Derek,
You are very astute!
The '76 was the first full model year the Cobra II was available to the whole nation. The '75 Cobra II pictured there was test marketed in California and Florida before being fully released. The intro was coincidental with the reintro of the 302 to the Mustang in '75.

Most '76 Cobras were Wimbledon White with blue stripes (painted stripes too, not decals 'til '77), but there were also many other colors including reds, greens, white on blue, and gold on black.

The Cobra II was indeed a "trim package", and was not identifiable by the VIN number or door tag. The Mach 1's however WERE identifiable by VIN and door tag, using "05" as the third and fourth digits of the VIN, and body code "69R" on the door tags. While most Cobra II's were ordered on the Mach 1 platform to get the competition suspension (springs, shocks, steering ratio, etc) and trim levels, and then had the Cobra II trim option added to it, we must note that there were oodles of Mach 1's that DID NOT get the Cobra II option added - they stayed "Mach 1's with the Mach 1 stickers, blacked-out grill and rear panels, etc.

The only way to tell a true Cobra II (or Cobra from '79-'81) or King Cobra is to look on the buck tag (screwed to the radiator support) and look for the letters "CB" or "CBR" for Cobra II, or "KC" or "KNG" for the King Cobra. If those letters are not there, or the buck tag is missing, you're SOL in terms of proving what the car really is.

Cobra II's were modified outside of Ford at Motortown Corporation, and were therefore traceable by PO's. Here's the skinny on Cobra II production...
'76 - 25,259
'77 - 11,948
'78 - 8,009
and King Cobras (estimated based on front air dam PO)
'78 - 4,318

I don't have a good line on the '79-'81 Cobra's production, because they were stripe and trim kits done inside FoMoCo. I'm still working on that one!!!

And one last note to guess who, someone bamfoosled you on the King Cobra info. The drivetrain was exactly the same as every other 302 car - no question. BUT, there were some significant differences in the bodywork and suspension - notably the Gabriel adjustables, spring rates, sway bars, front disc cooling ducts (they're steel too), side slats, and air dam - ALL unique to the KC. Add the barrage of unique stripes and upholstery ON TOP of those other changes. And MOST NOTEWORTHY OF ALL, the King Cobra was the first Mustang to sport the infamous "5.0" badge.
So IMO, they WERE actually pretty special little cars. They are a BLAST to drive, and they are real head-turners - everyone thinks you did some radical bodywork and paint to a Cobra II...

And guess who/Derek, did you guys know that the King Cobra was the only Mustang besides the Shelby's NOT to have a Mustang running horse anywhere on the car?

Proud

Last edited by ProudPony; Mar 27, 2003 at 08:09 AM.
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 09:57 AM
  #110  
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That's some really interesting info, Proud. When I was a little kid I used to go to Parks and Recreation in the summers - you know, you go to the park and play basketball and kickball and freeze tag and all that. One of the Parks and Rec counselors had a brand new King Cobra at the time and I can remember thinking that it was about the coolest car ever. I was about 7 then, so the borderline cartoony nature of it really appealed to me. Same reason I liked then (and still do, of course) the 2nd Gen. Trans Am with "screaming chicken" and the reason that I bought one. I don't think my current '77 (Cameo White w/Red/Charcoal chicken) Trans Am is quite as outrageous as a Cobra II, but there's something that just makes me smile about having a sticker that covers 3/4 of the hood. I definitely think the King Cobra, with it's black and gold paintwork and whole hood graphic was at least partially inspired by the Trans Am Y81/Y82 SEs (more commonly referred to as "Bandits") which in turn had stolen the scheme from John Player. You have to love the disco era cars. They might not have been that fast, but they're loud in their own way. I totally agree with you that the Cobra II is still, to my eyes, a pretty good looking car. As much as people talk trash the Mustang II, I'm sure a mint condition one driving down the street would turn plenty of heads.
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 10:11 AM
  #111  
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Originally posted by Eric77TA
I definitely think the King Cobra, with it's black and gold paintwork and whole hood graphic was at least partially inspired by the Trans Am Y81/Y82 SEs (more commonly referred to as "Bandits") which in turn had stolen the scheme from John Player. You have to love the disco era cars. They might not have been that fast, but they're loud in their own way. I totally agree with you that the Cobra II is still, to my eyes, a pretty good looking car. As much as people talk trash the Mustang II, I'm sure a mint condition one driving down the street would turn plenty of heads.
There is no question, Ford even admitted the King Cobra was a direct attack on the flaming bird T/A. In the era of "looks alone will sell", the T/A DEFINITELY was the first car with "the look" of whole-hood decals.

I too am fond of the ponycars of that era (all of them) because of the oppressed economy in which they lived. It's like pulling for the underdog - they had all the cards stacked against them to be performers in that era, yet a few managed pretty well, the F2's notably so. They had ***** enough to keep big ci engines available, whereas Ford did not.

I wouldn't consider selling any of my King Cobras right now. Their value is really starting to go up as they are now 25y/o and people are running out of the earlier 1st gen Mustangs to find and restore. Cobra II's are often fetching $6k or better now, and King's are fetching over $10k commonly, with the occasional ringer going to near $20k at Barrett-Jackson.

BTW, I think Farrah Fawcett did more for selling the Cobra II than all of Ford's advertising combined! Recall, she drove one on the TV show Charlie's Angels back in '78, and even had a wildly crazy-selling poster of her on the hood of that car. Likewise, Burt Reynolds made the Bandit T/A a car all unto itself! I LOVED that car in that movie - black/gold, honeycomb wheels, T-Tops... We just don't see that kind of front-stage auto coverage in TV and movies anymore...
Except maybe in the Fast and the Furious...
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 12:01 PM
  #112  
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Originally posted by ProudPony
We just don't see that kind of front-stage auto coverage in TV and movies anymore...
Except maybe in the Fast and the Furious...
Well let's not forget Viper and now Fast Lane and all the James Bond stuff. Not quite like the screaming chicken with Burt though...
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 12:31 PM
  #113  
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Originally posted by jrp4uc
Well let's not forget Viper and now Fast Lane and all the James Bond stuff. Not quite like the screaming chicken with Burt though...
Yeah and 60 Seconds...

But I mean flicks with the car being as much the star as the human star was.

Remember the Firebird in the Rockford files? And Magnum TI's Ferrari? KITT from Knight Rider? You saw those cars EVERY WEEK, doing burnouts and chasing down bad guys.

Nevermind something like Mad Max, or the original Cannonball Run movies. Those were the days...

IF I WERE A FORD MARKETING GURU (which I ain't), I'd be camped-out on the door of the producer for "Friends" until I got Phoebe and Monica to take a road trip in a Mustang GT Convertible... As a Ford representative, I'd offer to pay their salary for that taping to have my car in the show as much as possible.

I'd yank Frasier out of his Bimmer, and have him go thru his mid-life crisis in a Cobra. Niles could get a Saleen to show him up! Then Daphny could get a GT Convertible like the girls on "Friends" did! Sponsored by me, all fees paid of course.

Law and Order would have a rare chase scene where the undercover cops (preferably one of the girls ) in a Mustang would run down a ricer or two.

You see what I'm getting at? Instead we see partial shots of cars for a head-shot of the actors, in the dark, and no recognition of the vehicle. The cars are usually static too, not in chase scenes. The network TV market's just gotten lame for a car guy.
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 12:34 PM
  #114  
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I was always a Dukes fan as a kid. There was never a cooler, more revered car on TV than the General Lee.
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 03:37 PM
  #115  
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Originally posted by Z28Wilson
I was always a Dukes fan as a kid. There was never a cooler, more revered car on TV than the General Lee.
Car, yeah the General Lee had it going on...
As far as "seat worship", I always wanted to be the seat in Daisy Duke's Yellow Torino!
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 03:38 PM
  #116  
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Since we're on the subject of performance cars of the dark ages, it's worth mentioning the Mopar F-bodies, the Aspen & Volare. The Road Runner & Aspen R/T, though all but forgotten, could run with Z28s & Corvettes in acceleration even though it had a 2 BARREL Carburetor, and actually had a higher top speed!

From allpar.com:
In any case, the cars were light enough that with certain engines, they were rather potent--tests from car magazines of the day revealed that the '77 360-engined Aspen, with a two barrel carb, was about on a par from zero to sixty miles per hour as the '77 Camaro Z28 and Corvette L82, both with four barrel 350s. All three of these cars were faster than the '77 Trans Am 400-4. The Aspen was a bit slower by the clock but faster through the traps in the quarter mile than all of the other 3 from GM. The 318 offered more sedate, everyday performance. It was obviously less powerful, but it performed about the same as its competing models with similar-sized engines of the day.
(towards the bottom of http://www.allpar.com/model/aspen.html )

The only problem with those cars were that assembly quality was spotty, and they wasted no time in rusting (Chrysler actually had to recall them for that a couple of years later!

BTW, as far as the Trans Am is concerned, 1978 was the year it had upgrades that made it quicker than the Corvette & Z28 in acceleration. The same year, Corvette L82s also had a jump in horsepower & would go over 130 mph (T/As just barely exceeded 120), but the Vette weighed slightly more, had less torque, and a less agressive axle than the T/A 6.6.

Trivia Time:
The "improvements" made to the Corvette and T/A 6.6 in 1978 (semi-dual exhausts, higher axle ratios...except on the Corvette, & revised timing) were pioneered on the 1977 1/2 newly returned Camaro Z28.

Last edited by guionM; Mar 27, 2003 at 03:51 PM.
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 03:43 PM
  #117  
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Originally posted by guionM
Since we're on the subject of performance cars of the dark ages, it's worth mentioning the Mopar F-bodies, the Aspen & Volare. The Road Runner & Aspen R/T, though all but forgotten, could run with Z28s & Corvettes in acceleration even though it had a 2 BARREL Carburetor, and actually had a higher top speed!

Wow!

My mom bought a new 1979 Dodge Aspen Station Wagon when I was little.

Baby Poop brown and all.

Ah, thanks for bringing back the memories!!
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 03:49 PM
  #118  
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From: Mich.
Proud Pony.I must give you a double for your info.
Im not the "all" knowing of Mustangs,But I do know quite a bit.I for one would love to have a hatch Mustang II some day.I think they are cool lil cars.You can toss the coupes out the window I dont care for them at all.I mean who wouldnt want to drive this GEM

I knew it didnt come with the running horse.Once and a while I get the urge to do some research of different Ford cars from time to time and it looks like I need to research the Mustang II some more!
Again thanks for the info,VERY well done post.
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 03:54 PM
  #119  
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Originally posted by guess who
Proud Pony.I must give you a double for your info.
Im not the "all" knowing of Mustangs,But I do know quite a bit.I for one would love to have a hatch Mustang II some day.I think they are cool lil cars.You can toss the coupes out the window I dont care for them at all.I mean who wouldnt want to drive this GEM ...
WHOA!

Don't think even Branden will call that one ugly!

Last edited by guionM; Mar 27, 2003 at 03:57 PM.
Old Mar 27, 2003 | 03:57 PM
  #120  
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Originally posted by guionM
Since we're on the subject of performance cars of the dark ages, it's worth mentioning the Mopar F-bodies, the Aspen & Volare. The Road Runner & Aspen R/T, though all but forgotten, could run with Z28s & Corvettes in acceleration even though it had a 2 BARREL Carburetor, and actually had a higher top speed!

From allpar.com:


(towards the bottom of http://www.allpar.com/model/aspen.html )

The only problem with those cars were that assembly quality was spotty, and they wasted no time in rusting (Chrysler actually had to recall them for that a couple of years later!
Wow, isn't it amazing how performance alone didn't make them popular and legendary...

Hey, wait a minute, there's something familiar about that comment....

Seriously though, what a great peice of history to pipe in guionM. I appreciate that blast from the past. I actually have a memory of a bugundy Aspen that was 4 doors down from me growing up. The guy was kinda free-spirited, and the right rear was always balding quicer than the fronts were.



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