“This new GTO is like a Cavalier on a Camaro chassis.”

This was in response to UltimateGTO.com's selection to post pictures of the new Mustang concept on its site. As we've heard around here, purists are upset with the appearance of the new GTO. Again, Lutz did say hoodscoops for '05.

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Ya, I just finished reading that article...

Interesting to me, because as one of the people who are against retro styling the most on this website, I think the GTO was probably the best place that retro styling could have been applied!

The moniker had been gone 30 years, so you wouldn't be alienating later model versions of the car.

I understand that the economics of bringing the Monaro over here probably eliminated the chance of redoing all the sheetmetal on the car, but this was one place where I could actually supposrt a nicely done retro car.

 

Man that is the essence of tackiness for a GTO site

 

Lol, yes it is.

Back to the topic, that is a direct b**ch slap on GM's face. Featuring a Mustang? wow, the GTO guys must be really pissed.

I don't see what the big deal is. It's a good looking car and has the performance #'s to boot. An ls-6 isn't too far off either. All that and some guys are still hung over a few hoodscoops and what not.

 

Whats funny is run NewAgeGTO, and everyone there pretty much loves the car. Only trolls I get are from UltimateGTO.com.

Also outta curiosity, I wonder how Coletti would feel if we called his 05 creation a 66 Mustang on a bastardized Jag platform?

 

Those are fighting words, I also just read the article on autoweek and was wondering how come noone from any camp responds to his remarks. He did the same thing to Dodge when he said the new Lightning would beat the SRT and the quote about the Viper being reduced to a garden snake or something (can't remember off the tope of my head) but how come no one from any other camp responds... GMPVO needs to bring some concepts and then Mark Reuss needs to talk some trash about the SVT group.. just to lighten things up and put Mr. Colleti in a reality check. (I'm sure GM's Performance Div. can come up with that 220HP cavalier for the SVT Focus and can hopefully spruce up that damn sissy silverado SS truck and give it some grunt)

 

Coletti, gotta love him. But please GM, please please please build something (reasonably affordable) to shut this guy up.

 

GM "hijacked" the GTO name??? uhhh GTO fans, GM owns the GTO name and they can do with it whatever they want. they should just feel lucky that it never got slapped onto a fwd v6 platform like the imp and monte did. sure the GTO's styling is a little on the bland side but it isnt horrible. and the performance is pretty awesome for a stock GM car not wearing the Corvette name.

and GM, please, lets get the ball rolling on a bada$$ 5th gen to shut Colleti up! for months this joker has been taking potshots at Camaro's demise and im fed up with hearing it!

 

Eh, what do you expect? This is the first time in 10 years he's had an oppourtunity to say anything.

 

I admit I'm a fan of the mustang 05 concept, but Coletti needs to understand that he "Won the battle" more by GM's forefit that Ford's products, IMO (note that he never says anything bad about the vette)...

And I think the GTO naysayers will quiet up when some people start modding them and /or when they put the LS6 in...Then Ford/SVT/Coletti can re-assume it's second-class citizenship in the performance war

 

You got that right Darth! Say what you want about 4th gens but the entire 93-02 run OWNED their Mustang counterparts in terms of performance!

 

First off I respect everyone's opinion. Although I don't believe in brand loyalty if the brand you are loyal to has walked away from producing the cars you want to buy. Ford walked away from the performance enthusiast by making successively slower V8 Mustangs in '94 & '96, and killed off the Thunderbird SC in 97, so when it came time for me to grab another car, I went with GM via Chevrolet Camaro (the 1st GM product I owned since 1988).

That being said, after reading the Ultimate GTO site, and the comments written there & Bob Lutz's post there & other things he & the people who were responsible for both the original GTO and the new upcomming one, I think those guys are just a bunch of idiotic crybabies, and I am damn glad they haven't had a say in the GTO design.

They might be a little more credible if at the very least they said that "the new GTO is a good car, but..." or "I know it's the fastest GTO ever made, but...", or even had the slightest inclination that GTO was first and foremost a Pontiac Lemans or Tempest, but these guys are really ignorant. and I feel Bob Lutz is absolutely correct in giving up on those guys till the GTO actually comes. There is not one mention of performance in these guys posts.

That site has also lost all respectability with me as well. Branden's GTO site at least takes a balenced view of GTO, and even the worst GTO critic here (except one ) conceeds that the car itself is basically good. At this "Ultimate GTO" site, they posted a Mustang on their site because they didn't like the way GTO looked. That it the most assinine act of a bunch of spoiled p*ussies I've ever seen on any so-called enthusiasts website I've ever visited in my 4 years of crusing the internet.

The same type of people whined and bellyached when the 1968 GTO came out, but later accepted it because they were some of the quickest GTOs ever made. Seems history is repeating itself now.

Bob Lutz is 100% right. The new GTO shouldn't be aimed at GTO collectors or many of those other human idealistic relics that seem to be tripping over themselves in finding new ways to slam the car without having the slighest clue about it. Ford attempted to appeal to the collectors with the new Thunderbird. Once the collectors got new Thunderbird sales dropped. Same is likely to go for a retro, stacked lamped, mini-tailfinned, boxcar which someone there wouldn't be satisfied with because it didn't have multiple carburetors.

GTO has been gone from the scene way too long to win over those people whose vision of GTO dates back to before most all of them were born. GTO should be aimed for new customers. It takes a formula from the past, and does it in a modern way. If GTO had continued through the years it would be a version of the mid-sized Grand Am today. One shutters at the thought!

The number one source of leaks at GM confirms 2005's GTO will have hood scoops, which I'll even admit it can use. I'll also admit that although it's a good looking, low keyed car, Darth was right when he once said it resembles a Cavalier. The new GTO also would look better with duals comming out of both sides of the rear instead of just one. And I perfectly understand that some people would like to see some themes from GTOs past without going all out retro. Again, these are opinions, and I 100% respect that, and respect your right to those opinions. But the tendancy here is expressing those opinions without going into a juvenile slam-fest, which is what the "other" site degraded to.

Still, I am enthusiastic enough about the car to plan on actually buying one, pending on it's final price, the new Mustang's performance & quality, and the timely decisions from GM on both the Camaro and the El Camino.

GTO isn't perfect. But to me it's 90% there. To the biggest critic here (except one), GTO is perfect in everything except name, and I respect that opinion. But over at UltimateGTO, there isn't one comment about the car itself, there isn't one issue these guys bring up beyond the fact it doesn't look retro, and many of these guys are obviously high schoolers who wouldn't be buying ANY new car for many, many years.

Add to that, the fact that the website features a Mustang as a picture of the week, clearly demonstrates that these are just a bunch of a**holes, who are unable, uncapable, and unwilling to give GM any credit whatsoever, and would rather act like a bunch of spoiled kids.

Camaro has been discontinued for 6 months, GM is making no plans public for the next generation, all inquires into the 5th gen come back with a polite brush off, but yet I don't see a picture of a Mustang, or Infinity G35 Coupe, or an RX8 as a picture of the week here..... and we have WAY more reason to be upset than they do!

Sorry for the venting.

On the plus side, I always find John Coletti's remarks.... lively.


ATTENTION SFireGT98:
John DeLorean DID hijack the GTO name from... Ferrari! Pontiac's GTO initially was to have a different name. When he found out that Ferrari didn't copyright their car's name, he STOLE itwithout any compensation.

He also STOLE the names "Grand Prix, LeMans, Catalina,", and attempted to steal the name Trans Am till the race series threatened to sue GM. They settled when GM offered the series $5 per car to use the name. An arrangement GM tried to get out of when the 3rd gen Firebirds came out with the performance version's name being "T/A", but was changed back at the last minute.

 

He gets to talk **** till 2005-06, at which point the game has an amazing opportunity to swing to GM's side with a new GTO, C6, rwd Monte/Impala, Bengal/Solstice/Sky, rwd Grand Prix, and CTSv. The only area where Ford will still be ahead will be in the sport truck market, which is an area GM seems to care about nothing.

Or Bobby could get pissed off and allow a few HSV 427's to slip into the GTOs. Ahh a boy can dream cant he?

And with all that being said, I'd still buy 100 GTO's before I bought a 05 Mustang.

And one last thing, how does Bob Lutz manage to make it on to that shoddy GTO site and, unless he's really good at keeping his idenity, he probably wont be cought dead posting on a 30K+ Camaro board that talks about just about every new car on the market. At least RP cares enough. It would just be nice for GM to show the same enthuiasm twards us as we do twards them. We're the ones who have 6 GM cars in our family...

 

Guion's post brings up a lot of good points.

I just want to clarify my position on the GTO.

1) I think the styling is a bit bland. To me, it does look like it has a Cavalier profile on a larger scale. I also think the front clip is too similar to a 97-03 Grand Prix.

2) As probably the most anti-retro guy here, I do feel this would have been an ideal application if you must have a retro car in your lineup. GTO has a hertitrage, yet has been goen so long, you wouldn't really be ignoring the 'late model' GTO's that never existed. I also understand the circumstances around this car, and why, even if they wanted to, retro styling did not happen.

3) I do NOT think this car is ugly by any means. Actually, I LIKE the way it looks, I just think they could have done.... "more". (Not sure if that's the word I want to use, but it's all that comes to mind...)

4) If pricing is not ridiculous, and there is no new Camaro/Firebird, I may consider purchasing a GTO.

 

Yes, people at UltimateGTO.com are acting like spoiled babies. I have never been to the site and now I'm glad I haven't been. I hope that Chris and Jason NEVER post a Mustang or Mustang concept anywhere on this site. That is blasphemy! Here's an idea for them...since the GTO will be fully redesigned and built in America in just a couple years why don't they post some of the members' concepts of what they would like the next gen GTO to look like. Why not show something positive and give some creative feedback to GM. Oh wait, maybe they aren't creative over there.

As for Colletti, I stopped caring about what he has to say a while ago. It seems like he's just trying to make a name for himself in the auto industry by spewing the largest amount of hot air. The products should be able to speak for themselves.