Seriously people.............just.............let........... ...it..........go.........

 

In deference to the better people here I'm going to let that last Snarlman post slide. I should never have got sucked in to replying to his trolling.


Now, about that Zeta platform. I think it's very important that the new plant be built as quickly as possible to get either a new GTO or a new Firebird on the road. I also think it's imperative that GM builds a new Camaro.

Can you imagine a small car like the Solstice with that beast of an LS2 motor in it? All we need is 4 seats. BTW, I saw the Solstice at the car show and it's actually quite big. It's a 2-seater but really the car itself is amazingly large. Looks almost as big as a Cavalier.

 

Styling is a key in this segment... and that is the chief liability in the 05 Stang. Chassis... heavier. And don't try to tell me the ultra-retro interior is new...

Sure - a back seat is not an optimum location for some cargo. But it's fine for groceries and the like. And you've come as close as you likely ever will to agreeing with a point I made

This is a good question and I am truly glad you asked. Unfortunately by your implication though, it appears you have no idea as to what a GM enthusiast is. It has nothing to do really with what you drive. Some GM enthusiasts don't even have a car, such as students. It's more a matter of what you admire and respect. I have no issue with someone, GM enthusiast or not, pointing out what GM needs to improve. I feel I am allowed to point out though that when someone makes sweeping statements about 'slothful SSR and Silverado SS' and the like, that person does not sound like someone who admires and respects GM vehicles, performance, value, or features. Thus it would seem that person is not a GM enthusiast. I read with interest the posts about admiring the C6 - that's nice - but it still doesn't counterbalance the general broadsides being laid on. Despite the fact there are Fords I like (such as the Focus SVT) I dislike some too (eg, the GT) and I would NEVER go stirring up trouble on a Ford site like the Mustang Corral by bashing the GT there. If I did, how could I make any plausible case that I was a Ford fan? I consider myself a GM enthusiast - but while there are GM vehicles I don't like (Sunfire is one example) I don't see the point about dissing it. Constructive criticism is great but that's not what I've been seeing here.

I agree that those GP's had quality issues, and yes you are correct my 98 had a lot of repairs. But while we're examining my life history, it's also fair to point out I bought my 98 GTP coming off a lease, with 38k miles, and a loose air filter cover flapping in the wind so a little context would be helpful here. The car was a blast anyway, exceeded in fun factor only by my 04 Prix.

This dissing of the SSR/Silvy SS. You just don't get it do you - that some buyers want a little more than a splendid 1/4 ET. The Silvy SS is not a dragstrip king, and it's not meant to be. And the SSR (which BTW I am not a huge fan of either) is at least distinctive for summer cruises and shows that GM is willing to go out and take some chances. Where's Ford's Avalanche? H2? C5 Z06? CTS-V? Vue Redline? or GTP CompG?

I re-read that thread and am still OK about posting. I'll tell you why I challenged those chaps about piston slap. I had it myself on my 99 Formula and can personally attest to its absolutely trivial nature and consequence (UNLESS someone is looking for something to whine and moan about). From what I've read on such sites, many owners have been accommodated with major repairs and the like but still come onto the web to gripe about it. Then typically also, some others get onto the pile just to cause trouble. So I called them on it. If it offends you, tune it out. BTW... not everyone on that site is an FBody owner nor even an LS1 owner. And I've stopped posting/visiting there after the big scandal... I go to LS2.com instead now. Look there for more examples of my cruelty

Wrong... what is there to apologize for? I'm here to celebrate GM vehicles, features, performance and value that I admire and respect. That's all I do

Good. Then you won't mind if I think of you as "Snorman's Apologist"

Wrong again. If you speed once and get a ticket, can your insurance company label you a habitual speeder? I've seen Snorman post, and yes I realize he owns more than one make (Hurrah! ). He has also posted that he admires certain GM vehicles. Do I think he's a 'GM Hater'? Emphatically not. But it still bugs me when he comes to a GM site and spits on the bar with statements about the 'slothlike (or was it slovenly?) SS/SSR'. I know 'hating on GM' when I see it and no Sir, I do not like it.

The latter would do nicely! In fact I will lead the way, out of respect for the mods here - since this thread has gotten a little *impolite* this will be my last post in it.

 

This has yet to be seen. You're projecting your dislike of retro on everyone else. I doubt most people feel this way. I'm willing to bet more people buy a 2005 Mustang than the SSR, GTO and CTS-V combined. Probably not the best comparison, but GM really doesn't have anything to compare. And no, I'm not a GM hater

 

The old GTO crowd makes want to scream.....

What these people fail to mention is that their cars values have sky rocketed since the new car was announced....and overall awareness in the GTO is also up.

These pople bitch and compain because the want a frigging hood tach and hood scoops. Imagine if they were classic Mercury Cougar owners....as fanatical as they are, they would probaly had a mass suicide when the 99 Cougar came out.

Who gives a damn it doesn't have a Pontiac motor in it. I could see if this was a somehwhat new development...but there haven't been Pontiac motors since there was a peanut farmer in the oval office.

If I was Bob Lutz I would go and find as many old Pontiac 301 motors as I could, slap them in a some new GTO's, add a hood scoop made from a newspaper tube, and have the things airlifted to the GTOAA meet.

 

Well, the SSR has a planned sales run of 14k units, GTO of 18k, and the CTS-V is probably somewhere in between, I would HOPE that the Mustang sells more.

 

 

Like I said, nothing to really compare with. BTW, the GTO was revised to 16k, and probably won't meet that

 

Thats true. As much as I love the GTO, GM isnt treating it as the Halo car is should be. After seeing the GTO in the Speed GT class race monday, I preached again what I have been saying since I saw the first Coupe4. The GTO needs fender flares. The GTO looked like a 2dr audi with thoes flares.
Red, or anyone for GM that might have some say, put fender flares on the 05 GTO. Drop the scoops, recess the grill, fender flares, 18 inch tires, and dual side exhaust, (and LS2 ) and the car will be awesome It made the car so much more agressive looking, and there were zero scoops.

but you know what.... I would like to see the Mustang GT put up the same numbers as any of thoes cars!
SSR getting the ls2/6spd
GTO getting LS2/6spd
CTS-V with LS6/6spd.
all with 100hp thenthe Mustang. What I would like to see is the sales of the Mustang GT vs thoes 3. 3 different cars for 3 different niche markets going against the Pony Car.

 

Wow, we agree 110% on the fender flares. That's exactly what I was telling a guy here at work. That back end needs flares really bad. That alone would make the car look so much better.

Don't forget, the GT is the low end V8, not the high end. 300 HP and 320 TQ (underrated) is not bad for your low end V8 car. On 87 octane no less. I'm really looking forward to the SE and SVT offerings. I saw another SSR last week. I do like the way it looks, much more than the GTO.

 

Actually, there has been an even more recent matchup between the Mustang and GTO...
I have read the entire article - multiple times now!
They were so close it was painful! I found most interesting, the comments that the editors gave for each car - each getting their own kudos and criticisms.
READ FOR YOURSELF

FWIW...
Mach... 13.47 at 104.25
GTO... 13.52 at 105.50
Mach has best ET, GTO has top speed... sooo close it's unreal.

 

true. Ive been preaching the fender flares for a better part of a year now. AutoX body kit+ fender flares would make this car stick out like non other. and 400hp helps too!
And in MT this month, RSI put a 427, 600hp LSx engine into the SSR along with lowering it! They didnt have the numbers on that one, but they did have a worked over LS6 making 500hp and I eblive it was a sub 5 sec 0-60.

 

In the story it says:
"The GTO is certainly no F-body. First off, it's no pony car. It's bigger dimensionally and it feels bigger, but that's not all bad."

The GTO is in fact smaller than the F-car.

 

I love how people think the GTO is something like the size of the last Impy SS's!