Mustang's pricing starts in the teens. (probably) GTO starts at $33k.

Mustang has an unlimited build (basically) GTO has an 18,000 unit limit.

Your comparision is flawed.

 

I have to side with Darth here; GTO - no matter how successful can only sell 18,000 units - that's it, that's all. Mustang has been selling 10 times that routinely, so yeah there probably are more people signed up for a new Mustang - and it certainly doesn't hurt that the price of entry is what, about two thirds the GTO's asking price - not even taking into account dealer rape. So the comparison is a little skewed.

 

Mustang has a max production of just under 200k. It will not be even close to Ford's highest selling car. I think '05 production is predicted at 150k due to the short model year. Get ready for the '06's though...

 

Ya, thanks for clarifying... I put "unlimited (Basically)" in there to mean whatever Mustang's plant capacity is.

FWIW, I never thought Mustang would be Ford's best selling car either...

 

Gotta disagree with part of your statement. I myself really want a GTO. The only reason I didn't order one in February is because I couldn't find a dealer in Cali that was selling them at sticker. Since then, I've been also waiting for rebates.

During all this time, I've been hearing more & more about the new Mustang. It's likely to be the best Ford ever made. Everyone from Bill Ford himself on down is sweating every single detail about the car's quality and having a problem-free launch. The new Mustang GT will at least be as fast as the current Mach1. Then, as if to seal the deal, Ford dealers are willing to take your order for one for just hundreds over invoice!!

The new Mustang is selling not only because it promises to be a great little car, but also because everyone is pulling for it's success. Meanwhile, the GTO, which also is a great little car, seems to be sabotaged as soon as it's off the boat. At GM, there seems to be a hands off policy towards dealer gouging, there's incentives on everything including Corvettes & Cadillacs, yet GTO has nothing (I just got a "private" cash back offer from GM... of course, GTO again was excluded).

People do like the GTO. At $28,000, GM would have a GTO shortage. At $30,000 with incentives, every one would be selling. but at $32,000, with crazy mark ups and no incentives and exclusion from every cash back program GM has, even I have to admit it isn't worth it next to a $26,000 or less Mustang GT or a $30,000 Magnum Hemi wagon that can accelerate just as quickly.

 

Makes you wonder if some people want this car to fail (i.e. all the people that were against it from the start)? The fact that GM can't (isn't allowed) to keep the prices of its dealers in check is f'in stupid in my opinion.

 

Guy, you are VERY perceptive. I couldn't agree more.
With regards to the statement above, I've heard NOTHING on this board or any others about the level of involvement by management, engineers, and designers in the Mustang's launch. Fact is - they were all, and I mean EVERY ONE, in the trenches on this one.

HERE'S ONE ARTICLE of about 4 that I have read on just that topic. It's a good overview.
"Even managers and engineers are working on the assembly line to get a better feel for the best ways to build the first all-new Mustang in 25 years. "

"For this icon of the last 40 years, a favorite of Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Bill Ford -- and about 8 million other customers -- nothing is being left to chance. "

""With Mustang, there's a lot of responsibility -- more than most launches, frankly, because the expectations are so high," said Phil Spender, president of the Flat Rock plant and a man who keeps photos of his '67 fastback Mustang on his desk with those of his wife and kids. "

"Hau Thai-Tang, the Mustang's chief engineer, spent a day installing dashboard insulation. It required stooping over, holding up an 8-pound piece of foam, and securing it with plastic push pins -- all day, 400 cars, thousands of push pins. "I woke up the next day, my back hurt and my thumb was killing me," he recalled. The idea... is to teach humility to executives. "

I don't mean for this to sound like a Mustang commercial either - I would be JUST as impressed if the article were Lutz and staff doing the same for GTO. My point is simply that all stops have been pulled for this car. Ford heard the public, and has taken heed that not only a successful launch, but also a high-quality automobile is expected, and nothing less will be satisfactory. Their very livelyhood may depend largely on it - they know it, and they are handling it with kid-gloves. And you can bet, customer service will be second-to-none with these cars. When the CEO is supporting it like Bill Ford has, it's gonna get full support from the top all the way down to the delivery-prep guy.

As for the gouging... GM is dead-wrong to allow it to happen IMO. They are jeopardizing the car's reputation for a few bucks. We all know that time-to-market is critical in the success of any product... well it does no good to get there in time only to price yourself out of contention. By the time the newness has worn off, and the lots are all full of GTO's, the 300C, Mustang GT, and other "new" cars will have made it into market and the demand will plummet. Then, dealers will be forced to take cuts and GM cough up rebates to get 1-yr-old GTO's to move - especially with better, newer GTO models sitting on the same lot.

I don't think it's possible for Ford dealers to go for mark-ups on the 05 Mustang - there will be too many of them hitting the street all at once. The dealer rape we saw on Cobras and Mach 1's were applicable because the cars were available at SVT dealers only or were limited ed's and everyone knew it, but even then the rape didn't last long. No chance with a "common Mustang". And with early ordering taking place, folks will be "locked-in" on the car, with their specified colors, interiors, options, and whatever else they chose along with the price. Lastly, if you are lot-shopping, the next Ford dealer down the street will have more Mustangs to look at if the dealer you are at doesn't have what you like.

I do feel for the GTO model... it has all the right goods, but is being held back from sales success by it's own creator.
The new Mustang on the other hand... it's gonna be like something we've not seen in recent generations in a ponycar.

 

I, as a Camaro fan, have always been jealous of the seemingly broader support Mustang gets from Ford than Camaro did from GM.

I've always taken that with a grain of salt though, because of Corvette.

 

It's a shame.

Besides Scott Settlemire (GM NEEDS more guys like him), who at GM has this "Ford-like" commitment to the Camaro?

 

Unless "Team Camaro" is seperated from "Team Corvette", I doubt there will ever be anything close to that level of dedication to the Camaro name.

 

I dont even think that within GM, there is a commitment to Corvette like there is to Mustang at Ford. Within team 'Vette, ya, but not corporation-wide like at the Oval...

 

Not many. Scott and I may not always agree on everything....but there is NO DOUBT on where he stands regarding Camaro.

Don't get me wrong....there are lots of enthusiasts at GM. Lots of them would like to see a RWD Chevy coupe...(.which is not a Corvette)..... with lots of power.

The problem is, many at GM don't care if this car is a Camaro. Mustang at Ford, is a religion. Camaro at Chevy, is a side show.

The company that pushes a car with religious fervor....will always out-do the company that considers their car an expendable side show.

 

Has the absurdity of this hit you yet? If someone's not LOOKING for a GTO, what difference will it make whether it's as distinctive as a WS6 TA? I disagree anyway, having seen them parked and on the street.

The new Mustang will likely be a hit, although I suspect it will lose some women buyers due to the macho styling. What I don't believe though is that with long waiting lists, Ford dealers will somehow refrain from doing markups like they did with the 03 Cobra and the TBird.


Bulloney. This is a LIMITED edition car. It's being marketed like one. Dealers are perfectly justified in finding the best price point and yes, some of them are making significant profit on the car (Oh My! ). Kidney bean grille? You mean like on the Grand Prix, whose sales spiked 63% in 97 when the new style came out, or the Grand Am, Pontiac's best selling car? News for you: there are a lot of buyers who like those styling cues. As for the size, I love the back seat in the GTO - it's actually got real adult-sized legroom in back (unlike the current or new Mustang).

AMEN to that. And if you happen to hear one rumble by it's sweet music indeed

But the haters and fools out there will likely never notice...

It better be good. The TBird suffered significantly from its stumbling launch with the infamous ignitable trunk battery. Ford has some catching up to do anyway to GM in the quality department (maybe they can take some classes at Toyota )

Got evidence? Try getting a discount on a CTS-V buddy. Face it - the GTO is a hot machine. It's in demand (as you've stated - people do like the car). Dealers are excited to have it on their lot (maybe some want the traffic and THAT makes them reluctant to deal? thought of that?). Some dealers have a good inventory so they are dealing and selling at a discount. It's a matter of where one tries to find one. If you're in a poor supply area (import-crazed Cali does come to mind) try looking in another area.

Wrong in two ways. First, the Magnum is heavier and slower (0-60 in 6.3 vs 5.3 for the GTO according to autosite.com). Second, the street prices at edmunds.com are within a stone's throw of each other ($32,200 for the Magnum, $32,500 for the GTO. And shall we think for a second about which car will smack down the other on a curvy mountain road?

Too late. (Can you froth a little more about the new Stang please? )

As if this is something new. It's been happening with Fords over the years too. So what? Have YOU ever had to make ends meet and turn a profit as a car dealer? Perhaps the government should intervene with some new "excessive-auto-dealer-profit" legislation )

Tell me something... did it hurt the reputation of these cars?

There's the additional gushing I was looking for! ...Just to keep things fair, here's a little from a recent review:

 

Agreed! (Holy Cow Darth, we haven't agreed in months!)

As long as Team Corvette pulls the Camaro's strings.....it has ZERO chance of approaching the Mustang's level of commitment...and success.