GTO Sales Become a Disaster! Check the link:

New F-body Needed Now!

Looks like the need for the Zeta platform Camaro/Firebird has just become a lot more desperate as GTO sales remain completely dead. Perhaps this is why there are some hasty government negotiations going on for plant subsidies?

With all due respect, Bob didn't listen to us and this is what happened. At this point selling 70,000 F-bodies has to look mighty good compared to selling less than 2800 GTOs.

It's time to move on. Build that new Camaro, and build a Firebird too.

 

1. There's no such "hasty" negotiations going on for any plant subsidies. Where on earth did this stupid rumor come from?

2. GTO sales are running at about 50% of where they should be. A quick trip to your local Pontiac dealer will reveal the problem.
a) Dealer markup running up to $10,000!
b) No incentives unlike other GM cars, including the CTS and the Corvette.

3. LS1 Firebird sales sucked as bad as GTO's the final years.

4. GM's sales are up over the same period last year and way up over year before last. Pontiac's sales are up sharply. GM's profits are still strong on all counts. GM is far from desparate on anything at the moment.

5. If by "us" you are refering to those whining neanderthals over at one particular GTO site who have demonstrated a relatively dimwitted ability and knowledge about GTO history, then GM shouldn't have listened to them (what exactly is a "GTO look" besides hood scoops & blackout grill that's common with all historical GTOs?).


The picture you are painting of the situation is fantasy is so far as GM is scrambling to get an F-body made & that GTO's problems are because GM didn't listen to self-proclaimed GTO "enthusiasts".

Truth to the matter is this:

*GM retired the F-body because it simply didn't have anything else to put it on or a suitable place to make it. Period. If you want more details, do a search of this fourm.

*The GTO was brought over quickly as a halo performance car to show the "upscale" direction Pontiac was going. This meant no more scoops, glued on plastic siding, or racer stripes, then giving it a premium price. This was a mistake to a degree that the car should have had scoops, dual outlet tailpipes, and a recessed Pontiac grill. GTO enthusiasts who gave Pontiac constructive input (instead of engauging in heard mentality in bashing the car) will see alot of their suggestions and input on next year's car.

*The next Camaro was started years ago. As I said, GM needed a chassis to put it on. This means waiting for the new Zeta chassis to be finished. It takes 5 years to build a car from the ground up. The Solstice, which was done with lightning speed still will take over 3 years total to get to market. If you want to see when Camaro's coming out, again do a search of this form. It's been mentioned many times.

*GTO is here to stay, and the Firebird is DEAD. End of story. It doesn't fit in with Pontiac's direction. The next GTO (or carline it will be based on) is coming down the same development line, and very probally the same plant that Camaro's in.

*And finally, The GTO replaced the Grand Prix GTP coupe for chrissake!!! It DIDN'T replace the F-body. It's really grating when someone comes along and feels that any V8 rear drive coupe is somehow replacing the Camaro. Would a V8 RWD Cadillac coupe displace a Camaro? Would a mid sized V8 RWD Buick? Corvette looks closer to a Firebird (or Camaro). But it isn't being compared.

I'll predict that "The Last Ride" isn't going to give GTO the bounce in sales that's expected. I'll suspect that GM will then give some decent incentives to move the cars and dealers will be forced to abandon these insane markups.

That will move them.

BTW: I know you were in such a rush to post this because of a few misguided notions you had, but this has already been posted & another thread is already going on the subject & you're late to the table:
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...hreadid=264996

 

The only thing I would argue with you over Guion is that the GTO replaced the GP Coupe and not the 'bird.

Yeah, that is GM's line, but perception is reality in the automotive marketing biz, and if the public thinks it replaced the F-body then does it really matter what GM says it was supposed to replace?

The only thing the GTO has in Common with the GP coupe is the pontiac logo and 2 doors. It has V8, RWD, 2 doors and the pontiac logo in common with the Firebird.

Like I said, Perception is reality. YOu said in that letter to Pontiac that you have to define yourself otherwise you'll get defined by others and you may not like the definition. This has happened clearly with the GTO as evidenced by all the enthusiast whining about what the car should have been but is not and the public's perception of the car in general.

 

I agree a little more with GuionM actually, having owned both Firebirds and Prixs. The GTO is a lot different from the Firebird...

 

Sorry, but a lot of what you're saying just doesn't match what is in the Autoweek article. The truth is the GTO is the biggest sales flop since the Aztec. There are dealers who have had several of them on the lot for months and they can't sell them.

We're already half way through the year, there's thousands of GTOs at dealers and only 2700 have sold. That's nowhere near what the Camaro alone sold in its final year in the first three months.

And, the gist of my argument is if the GTO is this so-called "new direction" Pontiac is taking, then that direction must hold the same fate as Oldsmobile's. Selling cars is what it's all about and there is no market for the GTO. I'm not going to go through the reasons over and over again. 2700 units in almost 6 months speaks for itself.

The GTO is a car that was virtually ignored at car shows. And any dealer will tell you they aren't happy with it and neither are the customers.

No Firebird? Dead huh? We'll soon see. I'll guess that by 2006 the GTO is dead. Gone. Just like the Aztec.

 

Perception is INDEED reality, and unfortunately, the reality was that most of the car buying public didn't even know f-bodies were still being made in the late 90s!

I don't think Joe Q. Everyman thinks the GTO is replacing the Firebird, they're much more likely to just think GM brough back a name from the past.

 

2700 units have been sold of the maybe 3000 or so that are here. GM didn't get all 18,000 shipped here at once.

In 06 importing the GTO will be dead BECAUSE GM will then be building it here. The firebird is dead sorry guy.

 

The GTO's been out 6 months? Wanna try 2? And like has been said, there are only 3000 or so in the states right now. The Pontiac dealer nearby here sells them 3000 bucks over sticker, and theyre trying to justify that by adding new rims and whatnot, but no ones biting, still. There is another dealer a few miles away, however, that sells them at sticker and they can't keep them on the lot.

 

Why change pontiac's direction? Pontiac was always performance, reliability and drive ability with style for almost everyone. Same goes to chevy but it didnt have as many refinments as the pontiac cars, this can be seen in the comparison of the trans am vs z28. Such as power antenna, lumbar supports somewhat better audio system etc. GTO should have been put on the same pedistal as corvette and firebird should still be around, hence it would be geared towards rwd performance enthusiasts, and not just the elite who wish to own a highly refined car. Pontiac Does not = BMW if it aint broke dont fix it.

Is Gm trying to turn Pontiac into a Caddy? Pontiac should instead try to make a broad model range trying to suit everyones needs, like Ford, or dare i even say Honda or Toyota. And i am not an import fan, but they do listen to there custs. and try to take care of a broad range of prospective buyers.

As far as the GTO markup is concerned, my local pontiac dealer is chargeing 33k for the cars minus tax/tags and they have sold 2 since they had them on the lot about 6 months ago.

 

That may be true but you didn't see an LS1 Firebird advertisement in every auto magazine for months on-end did you?

Not to mention, I've seen the Pontiac Test Drive show (featuring the GTO) on Speed Channel twice now. Whatever profits there were must have been eaten up by marketing.

 

The touched-up '98 Firebird received its share of advertising and was a staple in mag comparos at the time.

I think a lot of the GTO naysayers are bitter and looking for any straw to grasp at. The car launched in the winter, has fallen victim of dealer markups (see Thunderbird), and is fighting a stigma that Pontiac only produces brutish or tacky performance cars.

Did the car miss the mark in styling? Yes, others have pointed out the omissions. These are being addressed for '05. You'll probably see more advertising and press then. And I bet those '04 prices will have come back down to Earth by this fall (and likely with incentives).

 

The madness continues, I agree with guionM.

 

I feel if the greedy dealers stop the $5000+ mark up then they would sell alot more of them. I sure as heck will NEVER pay more then the MSRP on a new car, I don't care how much money I have or dont have or how much the car is worth.:blah:

 

Not flaming, just wondering... where do you guys get your numbers from? I have heard and read different.

Quote - "Last year the company said it planned to sell 18,000 GTOs. But Holden plans to assemble 16,000 GTOs this year in Australia. The GM subsidiary can produce up to 18,000 GTOs annually in coming years. As of last week Holden had built 8,500 GTOs. At least 6,000 are in the United States, and another 1,000 are in transit, GM says."

Per THIS article.

 

Aztec outsold the Firebird.


Good thing the GTO isn't a Camaro.


The Firebird is DEAD DEAD DEAD. GTO will continue.

Guion (as usual) is spot-on. Dealer mark-ups are killing the car. It has to stop. GTO is a phenominal $28,000 car, not a phenominal $35,000 car.