I'm not suggestiong that what they are doing isn't understandable or isn't "best" for GM/Ford, etc...what I am suggesting is that their motivation is what is good for them; they aren't doing these things for "God and Country"; they are doing them for their Net Income which is their only real motivation.

Of course, GM and Ford staying in business is good for America but that is true of ANY automaker who employes Americans or any other industry/manufacturer who employes Americans...it's always better to have Americans employed than not employed.

And for the record, I don't like millions of cheap Chinese ANYTHING dumped here nor do I "like" buying cars with cheap Chinese parts in them no matter what nameplate is on the vehicle.

 

Wow. Simply, wow. How can you say never? We've been close to WWIII many times since then. Perhaps the only thing keeping things from escalating to the point of no return is the threat of nuclear weapons. Even then, there's a little dictator in NK who might be crazy enough to try it anyway.

 

I have known people that buy American only all their lives. And while this is their mantra and thats ok, i doubt that any of them know just how American they are buying. My first car was a new 95 Z28 and my second car a 93 Z28. Both of those are GM "American" cars. Both of them were built in Canada not the US. My third car is now a 2006 Hyundai Sonata. Hyundai is a S Korean company and that car was built in the US. Well which buy benefited Americans or the American auto worker? Answer, both. Both cars provided a usefulness for me at an affordable price. I am honestly more impressed with the Sonata over the Camaro. Does this mean that American workers can make a better car than Canadian workers? I think not. One would have to examine how the cars are designed and built to determine which is better.

Hyundai as a company has their sights set on the Japanese manufactures and not the US. Why? Because the US is hardly competition. Lately I have seen more moves by GM to compete with Hyundai rather than the Japanese companies.

 

You answered the never question in your next sentence. WWIII will be a entirely different animal than WWII. Tactics have changed. Manufacturing 30,000 fighter planes will do you zero good in say a Nuclear war.

The same reasons why mass manufacturing will be of no worth in the modern military age are the same reasons why we no longer build castles. Knights will NEVER roam the countryside again. Just like how WWII will never happen again. as a matter of fact war has changed already and the US has still not caught up. When I was in Iraq we regularly used WWII tactics to attempt to defeat 21st century insurgency tactics. Facts are they don't match.

Anyways all this is way of subject. Lets get back to economics.

 

Americans are too worried about gay marriage, Iraq, minimum wage, and ***** on TV to see the real problems going on in this country and between China. Out sourcing of high tech and medical research is much scarier than the out sourcing of manufacturing.

 

"But it makes our stock value go up"


lol

 

Ford isn't the worst automaker anymore...yay!

 

Maybe, but the loss of "trades", "unskilled" jobs we lose with outsourced manufacturing hurts the middle class.

We'll end up with an upper class, and a lower class. Manufacturing jobs create a middle class living for people that would probably end up in the lower class if not for the manufacturing jobs.

If that makes any sense.

 

I still say the cheap chinese cars will not overtake the current domestic/imports sold in the US until they establish a dealer network that can handle maintenance and repairs.

American car buyers spend far more after the fact on maintenance, repairs and upkeep on their vehicles. As long as they own, operate and maintain those cars here, most of that money is supporting American companies and American jobs regardless of where the car was manufactured.

 

The days of a formally un-educated/under educated worker going out at age 18 and landing a manufacturing job making $15 or $20/hour or more and providing a “middle class” living for himself and his family until he retires 30 years later has been going away for a long time and frankly, I don’t see that changing.

My dad was a tank commander in WW2 under Patton; after the war he became a foreman at a steel company; he had an 8th grade education but he was one of the smartest men I’ve ever known and I’ve met a lot and work with a lot of people who have a lot of letters after their names. Is isn’t that way any longer.

I hold two bachelor degrees and an MS degree and dozens of various seminars and training classes and “certifications” because it’s necessary if I want to compete in the marketplace…I read at least one non-fiction book every two months and I continue to take classes…that’s what has to happen today if I want to keep my job.

If you stand still, from an education standpoint, you’ll get passed by.

We don’t have to loose our middle class but workers are going to have to get educated and keep getting educated if they want to stay employed and make a “middle class” income.

On the other side of the coin, our government (and this is not an issue of what party is in power) seems unwilling to do anything to give American industry an even footing on the world stage…they seem to think “free trade” means we open our markets freely and expect nothing in return…they are so greedy for “trade” that they’ll look to countries like China with a jar of Vaseline in one hand asking what position we can get in to make the their “free trade” easier for them.

I don’t have an answer here…just ranting a bit.

 

RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE.

Ford Rides to the Rescue of Wild Mustangs
"In a statement on its Web site, Ford said: "It saddened us to learn that many wild horses are in jeopardy, and it was an easy decision to help when asked by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management. We are working with this federal government agency to investigate a way to sustain these horses that are such an integral part of American lore and tradition."

Ford Warriors in Pink
"To date, Ford has dedicated more than $87 million to the Susan G Koman Foundation in donations and in-kind gifts. This is only a small part of Ford Division's initiative in the fight against breast cancer."

GETTYSBURG FOUNDATION TO RECEIVE $3 MILLION GRANT FOR NEW FORD EDUCATION CENTER
"The Battle of Gettysburg played a major role in shaping the final outcome of the Civil War," said Ziad Ojakli, Ford Group Vice President, Corporate Affairs. "At Ford, we understand the value of preserving our American heritage, and we believe it vitally important to share the historical impact of Gettysburg with generations to come."

Habitat For Humanity
"We at Ford are proud of our ten-year relationship with Habitat for Humanity and are honored to serve as a Host City Partner for the 2005 Jimmy Carter Work Project," said Pamela Alexander, Director of Community Outreach and Business Operations at Ford Motor Company Fund. "For over 100 years, Ford Motor Company has been working to enrich the communities where we operate."

I can go on and on all day... and I'm sure that Nis-Toy-Hon also have their charities and programs, but there is an underlying bias in the giving of Ford and GM to US communities and civil service that is unmatched by any company based outside sovereign soil. Sure they get tax benefits for "donations", but the resources, time, and the spirit do not get tax-exempt status. Ford and GM have been helping the US culture, infrastructure, and general way of life for 100 years now. That investment is not insignificant IMO, and I will continue to support these companies with my business to show my gratitude for their efforts.



I agree whole-heartedly - that's my main complaint too!
But as noted in another thread, our window of opportunity is closing fast if not already shut to turn this tide of offshore movement by corporate America. There should have been tighter regulations on whom and how American companies can do business with, instead, the wealthy in Washington pass laws and ignore calls for unfair trading practices and they allow companies to go wherever they want, deal with whomever they want, and do whatever they want - including countries that dump toxic waste into canals, use child/slave labor, and are politicall immoral. The tide is flowing at a huge rate now, and it's almost impossible for any company NOT to consider moving some or all of their business to lower-cost regions simply to stay in business. But just because that is the case, it DOES NOT make it right.

I agree 100% - again.
Caveat - it's hard for Ford or GM to sell any cars in CHina when nobody there can afford to buy one because they are not employed.
MY SOLUTION... build plants there to make cars there to sell to people who live and work there... but NOT to import back here and undermine OUR manufacturing base and economy with!!!
CERTAINLY - I agree that we should NOT be sending our technology over there in transparent wrappings... we should have learned from Japan in the post WW-II era that they will beat us to death with our own technology if we let them. In essence, I feel that we should pull 3rd-world nations and lower economically positioned countries along with us, sharing good health and economical growth, but don't give them "the gun" to turn around and shoot us with.

AMEN!!! That would definitely help with the sales-side of free-trade, but there is still the underlying problem with US companies that manufacture goods there and bring them back here to sell... the problem is that there is noboby working here anymore so they can't afford to buy the junk anyways, AND we are financing the economic growth of China by employing their people in our factories - so they are earning money at our expense! WE NEED JOBS TOO to be able to buy stuff - that seems to escape the minds of those in office or in glass towers that are making $million$ pushing paper and making decisions. Honestly, we can not be an entire nation of service-providers... somebody's got to MAKE something. [/QUOTE]

 

doesn't Japan have a very high tax on trucks that are imported? What would happen if the US decided to put a very high tax on automobiles and trucks that are imported?

 

I know the the domestic automotive industry has a proud history and no one can take away they great impact they've had on the US.

Howevr, the GM or Ford of today is not the GM or Ford of 50 yeras ago...I think our main point of disagreement here is what each of us assume is their motivation for the "good" they do. I don't want to get in a shouting match of showing how much the non-domestics give to charity but they do give.

I would suggest that neither GM or Ford give out of some great love of "country", at least not anymore. They give because the public expects them to give...the give to be "good corporate citizens"; for them, it’s more a cost of doing business than some altruistic endeavor.

Understand, I'm not disparaging individual people at any of these companies- true patriotism and love of country by individual employees of all these companies is very real...what I'm suggesting is that, as a corporate organism, they act out of love of company; not love of country.

 

I honestly don't know if that's true without looking it up. However, I belive it's safe to say that Japan has never been overly "friendly" to imported products.

I also suspect that when it comes to full-sized trucks, if they are trying to restrict their import it may well have more to do with issues of "space" as it does a desire to keep imports out.

 

I'd rather post the link... the scanned article is too big to fit our screen size and I'm at work so I can't resize and upload to server...

http://www.yadtel.net/~gcreed1/pics/China/Car_Tax.jpg

THIS is how China does business... and we never hear about it in the States.