What in God's green Earth have YOU attempted to even discuss in this thread? You've posted an article, we started to talk about the effects to a rapidly changing American manufacturing landscape (and the reprecussions of not buying American) and you start taking drive-by swipes at us while offering NO further insight whatsoever....so please, start up a conversation....give us a jumping off point for discussion and something different to ponder and we might respond in kind. Don't worry, we're pretty smart around here (though not as smart as you obviously), we can handle it.

EDIT: Outstanding insight ProudPony. If Americans can't see what's really happening here, and realize it quickly.........

 

Just to play the devil's advocate for a second.

Should the Chinese manufacturer's take over the automotive landscape and dominate the market globally; as it's been well documented that 95% of the stuff they build are based on ideas "borrowed" from other manufacturers, who the heck would they steal their ideas from once everyone else is broke?

 

If a good can be purchased more cheaply abroad, we enjoy a higher standard of living by trading than we would by producing it ourselves.

 

Maybe short term and/or microscopically. But not once all the stuff that needs to be produced is produced overseas (and therefore the wage-paying jobs are now overseas). What will people here do for a living in order to buy said stuff and enjoy that higher standard of living?

 

Don't you feel that is an overly simplistic way of looking at things? What is your standard of living going to look like when nothing is produced here and you don't have a job, unless you're a doctor, lawyer, or work in a niche market that still has some relevance here?

Interesting concept. I would think that they would start coming up with ideas themselves....or, they hire consultants from around the globe to think for them....

 

Ok, you want a jumping off point? Here are some thoughts.

“Buying American” is not going to have an impact on China or what is coming.

All those “American” companies you love, including every major automotive manufacturer (including beloved GM as well as Ford and DCX) and just about everyone else you can name (inside or outside the US) are either already in bed or standing in line to get in bed with China to get a piece of the pie – and no amount of “buying American” is going to change that. Maybe it would have made a difference 20 years ago but it's too late now.

You can’t truly “buy American” when it comes to vehicles anyway. The big 2.5 used to be “American” companies. They aren’t any more. Today, that is no more than a marketing phrase, used by ad agencies from Taiwan and India to get “Americans’ who don’t know any better to think that buying a Chevy or a Ford is the “American” thing to do.

The truth hurts and the truth is that very few large companies today, regardless of how they started, have any REAL affiliation or love of any one particular country; their real loyalty is to their company which is, very often, larger (from a financial standpoint) than many countries today.

Here is an insight for everyone; GM and Ford and Chrysler and Toyota and Nissan and Honda are going to do what’s best for GM and Ford and Chrysler and Toyota and Nissan and Honda. Their respective advertising and marketing departments would like you to believe otherwise and no doubt some individual employees of those companies do feel otherwise but if you think GM or Ford, as entities, really give a damm about the USA more than they care about their Net Incomes you are mistaken.

And as long as our Federal Government wants to play footsie with China, things aren’t going to change.

Here is another tidbit…someone wanted to discuss the parallel between Chinese cars entering the market and the Asian manufacturers entering the market forty years ago…are there similarities? Yes. But here is one big difference…last time I checked, neither Japan nor Korea or any other foreign country, Asian or European, that imports cars to this country or has manufacturing facilities here currently have nuclear missiles pointed at our country nor do their respective governments want to destroy western democracy.

 

It is a very simple concept if you think about it. Yes it is true that building cars in america is no longer an option due to high labor costs. If you want to be able to afford that new car you better hope that the auto industry moves to another country. What we are experiencing is a growing pain. We have long been shifting away from being a industy led economy to more a capital led economy.

Just like how the majority of workers in the 1800's were farmers and in the 1950's industry workers the time changed. Should we go backwards in our economic development? At what cost. If you make the auto makers build here then every buyer will suffer the rise in cost of cars vs saving only a fraction of jobs.

 

True. Which is why China bothers me even more, and why I am sickened when I walk into a Target or Kohls or Walmart or any other store and see that nearly every damn item on the shelf is made in China. EVERYTHING.

As for Japan not having nukes pointed at us, that is because we had control of that situation (dating way back to WW2). If we hadn't used a couple of nukes on our own and changed the course of things way back then, they very well could have nukes pointed every which way by now. So to me, the lack of military threat from Japan doesn't imply that Japan's intentions toward us are good, or neutral. Currency manipulation...conquer from within...and so on... I dunno. I'm certainly not a geopolitical economist. But this business with China bothers me. A lot.

 

"Since 2000, China has lost 4.5 million manufacturing jobs compared to the loss of 3.1 million in the U.S. Nine of the top 10 manufacturing countries, who produce 75 percent of the world's manufacturing output (the U.S., Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy, Korea, Canada, and Mexico), have lost manufacturing jobs, Italy being the exception. Because of technological progress, manufacturing output has risen while manufacturing employment has fallen." from: Foreign Trade Angst, by Walter Williams October 18, 2006

 

Actually if you want to kill the Chinese imports all you really need to do is increase the requirements to meet environmental and emissions standards. With their cost cutting and build it cheap not smart approach to manufacturing, they'll never be able to catch up. The problem with that idea is the Domestic, Japanese and European manufacturers will fight you every step of the way.

Look what happened to the Japanese imports. The domestic manufacturers brushed them off as producing cheap and crappy cars. They improved their manufacturing and quality and cornered the market on well-built economy cars. Did the domestics learn from this? Hardly. Who controls the market on hybrid technology today? It isn't a domestic manufacturer. I read somewhere that Toyota controls roughly 95% of the patents on hybrid technology. Once again, the domestics are going to lose out.

I just don't see the Chinese manufacturers producing cheap hybrid cars. I also don't see them creating cheap 50 mpg econo-boxes that will corner the market, as fuel efficiency has never been a concern with them. Therefore I don't see a repeat in China as we saw with Japan. Perhaps I'm being naive and will be proven wrong in time. However I just don’t see them being a long-term threat as we move towards new more energy efficient vehicles.

 

Maybe George W Bush should invade China like he did w/ Iraq and Afghanistan w/ the pretense of these countries being a "global" threat. Since China has had weapons of mass destruction for quite a while now and he cant use the same alibi twice, maybe he could accuse them of economic sabotage or unfair labor practices or something as lame as that. But I doubt he will as China is not as helpless as the other countires mentioned. Lets face it guys, the US cant be no. 1 forever and even though George W is trying so hard to lift the US by stepping on other countries' rights (wrong tactic), it cant last. I guess thats his mistake, maybe he should be more diplomatic.

A good thing that will come out w/ China's entering the car biz is we will have more choices, which is what a free market should be. Who knows, maybe a few years from now, you'll be praising Chinese cars for their design and performance...although I doubt you will

 

That would mean a ground assault with troop deployment. Do you really think we could match up numbers with the chinese red army?

 

*Sigh* Speaking of tired arguments.....

GM and Ford, despite all of their troubles, all of their well-publicized outsourcing, are still several times over "more American" than their counterparts in the industry. I don't feel that's "JMO" either. There are many numbers that have been given here that support that statement. Whatever you want to believe to help you justify your purchases, that's fine.

However, GM and Ford MUST play the game to stay competitive. I laugh at these political campaign commercials where the candidate says "I will work to stop outsourcing" (a huge issue in Michigan these days because the economy here is struggling). No one will ever be able to "stop" outsourcing....that cat is out of the bag now, and as long as there are stockholders who demand a return on their investment there's nothing anyone can do.

Bottom line to me is, building products in China, for China, and bringing the profits back here is one thing. Buying Chinese branded products here that were made there is completely different. Don't you think?

 

I thought we were talking about cars.....

 

I was being sarcastic What about nuking them?

I honestly think the best thing to do is to accept and change...