Disgusting ---

But Proud, you know these Chinese cars will sell. The people that buy them will either A) be ignorant of the circumstances or B) simply not care.

 

I agree with you ProudPony about how the Chinese are much more brutally competitive than the free world. On the other hand when the US started to become a world industrial power, it was filled with corruption and harsh living conditions. We have been trough what developing countries are struggling through now and have graduated to where we are today. One needs to understand that countries and regions of the world lack that fundamental knowledge and experience that makes us as civilized as we are. Unfortunately the evolution of society is a violent and long process.

The only difference between the problems we encountered with industrialization vs 3rd world nations today is technology. Technology has become so cheep and widespread that all sorts of new and uncharted problems have arisen from a new industrial nations.

Its obvious that the US is not on the same plane of existence with other developing countries. In this article a Indian man gets 51 slaps for raping a retarded girl. http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc....ap/index.html

 

I'm not so sure. The majority of eco-friendly car buyers are fairly educated, and fairly well informed. They are more than likely to not buy a product and in fact even protest about it if they learn that people, animals or natural resources were harmed in its production.

The tree-huggers may surprise you.

 

You can blame the rednecks here and some local greedy ex-domestic car dealers for some of the Kia-Daewoo love.

 

I think there is a very large market for very inexpensive cars in the US. People will buy them with zero regard to where or how they were manufactured. I am sure most future Camaro owners will not care that the 5th gen will be made outside the US also. The market for cheap cars will only care about price and affordability.

 

Are these the same kind of tree-huggers who fly around in private jets using tens of thousands of gallaons of jet fuel all to tell us "common folk" about the wastefullness of our SUVs???

 

YOU NAILED IT.

Probably more of the latter than the first too.
So many people I talk to that just bought a Kia or Hyundai INSTANTLY spout out "It only cost me $8000!!!... and check it out, it's got leather and a stereo!!!", indicating to me where their attention was focused.

Americans - especially the last few generations - have been trained to concentrate on their own personal issues - regardless of the ramifications to the rest of the town, state, country, etc.

For the wary wolf who can tell that his target's eye is not wide open, the big blind spot makes stalking his prey all that much easier.

 

I agree 100% about the treehuggers... but the treehuggers don't make up anything close to the majority of people who will buy a cheap car... don't forget us trailer-park-trash rednecks whose old Mustang or Camaro is on cinderblocks... we need a ride to get to the next NASCAR race in!
We men drive the old rusty Toyota 4x4 pickup with 33" mud-swampers on it and buy the chinese car for the wife to haul beer home from the quick-stop and to run the baby over to granny's place on Friday nights so we can bust loose!

Honestly... you KNOW these will sell.
Wanna example.

YUGO.

I digress.

 

Also, are these the same poeple that do most of their shopping at WalMart because everything is "such a deal!"?

I don't think it's such a stretch to assume the people who buy Chinese-made housewares at undercut prices won't bat an eye at doing the same when choosing where to shop for a car.

 

When I bought my Hyundai Sonata I was honestly impressed with its styling and overall craftsmanship. The next major issues were that it came with a great warranty and at a very affordable price. I walked out the door paying 15k for it. I dont have to worry about it working for 10 years. I cant say that for a single GM product. Initially I wanted a Solstice due to its low MSRP and great styling. When I returned form Iraq I was saddened to find out you could not touch a Solstice unless you were willing to pay upwards of 30k

I did the most senseable thing a conscious buyer would do. I looked at the utility and overall satisfaction vs cost. It was hands down a simple decision to go with the AMERICAN built 2006 Sonata. And at no point did I give two craps about whether or not I was supporting the bloated inept US auto industry. GM did not make the sale because they can not compete for the below 20k market.

 

True the early days in the US were rough and tough, but those conditions were also prevailant everywhere else in the world at that time - NOT just here.
We were being ruled by the King of England before the Revolutionary War, and we fought for independence because of tyranny and harsh laws/judgements/punishments, but the Europe that was ruling us was no better - hence why all the Pilgrims came here in the first place. And the Boston Tea party was the first major movement we used to demonstrate that we (America) were no longer going to trade with Great Brittain under the same conditions as before. We in essence MADE things get better by NOT trading and asking for more support from England. I feel that the same kind of action is what is needed to make China obey the same laws of humanity and ecology that the rest of the modern civilized world agrees is necessary.


That oppression is happening over there - I can not prevent.

That we are SUPPORTING that kind of behavior by ignoring it and continuing to do business with that country - I can help a tiny bit by watching what I buy.

That we CONDONE that kind of behavior by continuing to ask the government for real estate to build factories and plants on is totally absurd and immoral IMO.

In short, we might not be able to stop it, but we certainly SHOULD NOT continue to support it financially (or in any other way).

 

You just did the SAME thing I said in my post!!!!

It's about "me", my best deal, my best value, my perceived quality, what I saw, and my final price.
NOWHERE in your post did you mention anything about the child-labor used to weave the cloth used on the seats, the slave labor working in steel mills in India that supplied the steel for the car, the vapors and emissions spewed into the atmosphere in the country that made the components, etc.

I digress. IMO, you just made my point better than I did.

That does NOT make you a bad person - DON'T mistake my posts - it just means that you spend your money in a less-stringent way than I spend mine, and you don't have as much criteria to meet as I do when it comes to closing a deal. That's not defamatory to either one of us.

 

I think you missed my point in just conditions during the industrial revolution. It is a necessary step that all countries must go through. You can not expect a country to develop to our level with out them experiencing the same hurdles that we had to suffer through and overcome. The best way at supporting their progress is not by shutting them out or our doors to trade but instead opening them. It will take a long time to get even countries like China which are developing faster than ever to be up to speed with anyone close to US standards. At the same time we still are changing and growing to a more modern society.

Trade is good and what two friendly countries do with each other. You should not want to stop trade, you should promote trade. The US would have never lasted if had not developed strong trade relations all over the world. We have traded with the orient from our very beginning and besides for WWII we still do today.

Trade is a sign of peaceful relations and the opposite of war. If anything is going to beat the communist ideals in China it will be because of our trading with them. Shutting your doors is what countries like N Korea do.

 

That would be a great post if we were in the 19th century.

But besides that, proudpony isnt all for cutting ALL ties anyways. He knows each country must trade to some extent but the point is that we are reaching a ceiling of trading dollars where it will hurt us to continue to move good away to "gain" a dollar.

You guys should come to north Miss and check out the empty furnature factory buildings and talk to the people devistated by all of the manuf. jobs moved to China.

Our company lost about half of our total revenue because of uor main customers selective moves to China.

 

Yes it is about me. I am an individual that belongs to no collective. As an individual I look out for my interests. I did happen to mention that my purchase was built in America. I also mentioned that I would rather buy a car from a company like Hyundai than GM or Ford. I would rather trade with a new company that gets it rather than supporting an old company living off its nameplate and American heritage.