No I don't...I seriouisly believe they will continue to waste as much of our resources as they want while telling the "little people" to conserve...much like those who want to rid the country of personal gun ownership but want their own security guards to be armed to the teeth!

 

Actually, I think the US has proven many times over that it is willing to be fair with other countries and yes, I think they do "care"...out of both self preservation and also out of a genuine desire to help other individuals and countries.

I have no problem with free, and fair trade with countries whos governments are legitimate (chosen by its people) and at their core, hold to basic human values; I have a very big problem with treating an enemy as if they are a friend.

China is an enemy...we just have too many greedy people who refuse to see that.

 

Anyone who listens to celeb advice is urm... not right in the head. Take the recent Proposition 87 where celebs tried to impose taxes on oil companies to fund alternative energy research. One producer spent 50 million of his own $ on the campaign. Im sure 50 million would go a little ways in research itself. I wonder sometimes how people like that are able to make millions of dollars in the first place.

 

I dont generally heed the advice of celebs either. My reasoning is simply the new envoronment they live in because of their wealth. I just dont see how they can keep a deep rooted feel for the mean of everyday like living in super-secure upscale areas surrounded my more of the same people.

 

I agree

 

They could be sold for $15.99... it doesn't make any difference if you have no job, no home, and can't feed your family.
Likewise, who could afford insurance or $5/gallon gasoline? $1000 tires? $100 oil changes?

There are people in this country RIGHT NOW who have lost their job and are losing their homes, cars, and all their savings because their jobs have been "exported".

Lastly, it's gonna be pretty hard to afford a $15k car when you have a spouse and kid and you make $5.15/hr at McDonalds (or some other service provider).

You have GOT to look at the bigger pictures and ALL the trends combined... there is more to the world than a sales price on one item.

Consider this... I recall reading a recent article (at my barber shop no less!) which said there is estimated to be some 400-500 million cars registered and running in the USA - thats like 2 cars for every person. IMAGINE just 1 car for HALF of the people in China... that would be 750-million cars - 50% more than the entire USA fleet.
If China were to become as afluent as we Americans, they would desimate the global supplies of natural resources. What would that do to gas consumption globally? Oil consumption? Rubber consumption?

And you are going to ignore all the other things because you think will get a great deal on a Camaro and everything else will remain static the way it is now?!?!

 

Lots of gloom and doom considering how prosperous the average American has become. The age of producing cars with overpaid inefficient union labor is over. Never again in the US will a kid be able to graduate from HS and get a Union job at a factory to provide for his family. The idea or notion that Americans will no longer have jobs due to all the foreigners stealing them is ridiculous. What is true is Americans will have to get jobs in different areas other than what foreign labor can out compete us on. Americans have to realize there is global competition out there and they will try to get to our level no matter what. I'm sure if we are as good as we think we are we will end up a ok.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say. I believe in healthy competition – I think the US can hold its own with anybody. I also agree that a lot of the jobs that exist today will likely not exist for much longer and people are going to have to adjust to that (meaning education and training that goes far beyond high school). I don’t believe the government should artificially prop-up the existence of jobs or industry when the world has passed by those jobs/industry.

However, that does not mean we should permit countries to take those jobs or that industry with unfair tactics.

The pink elephant you seem to be ignoring is that where American is loosing it is not because we can’t compete or can’t do the job and it’s not even overpaid, inefficient union labor (although they most certainly carry some of the blame), we can’t compete with countries and their people who are willing to work for pennies on the dollar and sacrifice their health and safety in order to put food on the table that night nor can we compete with countries who steel our designs and/or purposely dump cheep goods in our stores to artificially depress prices nor can we compete with countries who want unrestricted and totally free access to our markets while denying the US access to their markets.

Free trade and healthy competition are wonderful things; unfair trade and unfair competition are not…natural transitions of industries and jobs are fine but that doesn’t mean we should stand still and permit those transitions to be hastened along by unscrupulous countries/companies/people.

 

Proud,

Good luck to you, my friend, in your debate. I think you know where I stand after countless pointless rounds with Mr. Nashville. I've followed this thread from the beginning, and have chosen to keep my mouth shut.

I think Bill Ford is completely correct...Americans simply DO NOT GET IT. Everyone is too busy watching their own personal pocketbooks and fails to see the bigger picture. When they don't have jobs to fill their pocketbooks anymore, it'll be simply too late...

 

The only solution is to stop trading all together with countries that practice unfair business. Problem is this is not a acceptable answer. Trading with foreign countries will always involve tactics that seem unfair. When we trade with Europe they use tactics that I consider unfair. Take British Airways and Air France being a subsidiary of the British and French governments. They use tax dollars to undercut ticket prices and cover costs. This was why they were able to operate the Concord as a loss for almost 30 years. When we trade with Europe we trade with socialist countries who use taxes to fund businesses. When we trade with China we trade with people who have no choice but to work for low wages. When we trade with impoverished countries we trade with people who are willing to work for low wages due to the low standard of income.

Its hard to find a place in the world where unfair tactics are not employed. Even in Canada where they undercut medicine costs with taxes and generic producers. This cuts our pharmaceutical companies profits due to their expensive R&D costs. They R&D the drug so other companies can produce it for free. Drugs dont make themselves people.

A lot of countries say the US uses unfair tactics. Europe cites our low taxes as a very unfair tactic against them. The US "free" market also is the cause for the "brain drain" of educated professionals coming to the US. A lot of countries see our free market as a unfair tactic that undercuts their inefficient socialized industries.

Yes I understand that China uses some hardcore tactics to undercut production in all countries. I dont like it when any country be it in Europe or the Orient uses the government to fund or run businesses. I also do not like it when the US government fells the need to fund GM or Ford with tax dollars to stay in business. Be it government subsidies or bailouts neither is the mark of a free system.

 

This is about tomorrow, not yesterday.

 

Ponykillr,

I’m not naive enough to suggest nor am I suggesting that there are easy answers here nor am I suggesting we build a big wall around the US and retreat from the rest of the world.

However the US is THE market for all other countries and regardless of what “they” think of us and our free enterprise system, if they want to survive and prosper they need access to our markets.

That is a huge bargaining chip and last time I looked; there is nothing that obligates us to freely open our markets to countries who will not reciprocate.

 

I am just pointing out that I read this argument all the time from the foreign view also. The argument is almost exactly the same on their side against us. I am pro American by far and my concern is that we will turn US industry to government dependency. The US needs to free up its "free" system of business. The fact that its easier to move factories to Mexico and Canada and ship in cars made in Australia rather than building them in the US is a problem. More government regulations and influence will exacerbate the problem rather than help.

 

But will it stay this way, is it staying this way, and what can we do to make sure we endure this in long term.

They, China, dont care how self-absorbed we are. We can think we are The Market all day long but when they end up with most of the means, "in the name of free trade" then what?

 

Scary! I was watching fox last night, and they were talking about the meeting with Bush and the big 3, and one of the guys actually said, "if they are going to help them out, shouldn't they help some of the others (transplants), since they have plants here, doesn't that make them American automakers too"? WTF? We are Doomed!