You guys seem to be forgettnig the whole aspect of having an exclusive model.

I could own a 1967 Chevelle SS or a 1967 Chevelle with a 396 dropped in and SS badges. Which would you rather have? Which comands more of a price on the market? The cars have a little extra value to them. Not everyone spends their money purely for performance. Whether its worth it or not is up to the buyer.

 

I'm looking at what those modifications meant for performance. Even with a 200lb weight disadvantage, a SS could nearly match the lap-times of a pre-Z06 Corvette. On the track, the Camaro SS was worth every penny. Say what you want, but a Z28 with the performance suspension option still wasn't nearly the equal of the SLP car.

That said, I didn't buy my Z28 to drive on the track. I liked the hood scoop on the SS, but the rest of the package left me cold. There again, I'm the sort of wierdo who actually ordered the 2.73 rear end and base Eagle GAs.

For the people who actually cared about on-track handling, the only downside of the SS was that the capabilities of the chassis were in excess of the available power. The Camaro SS could easy have taken a 400hp LS-6 without the need for any suspension or braking upgrades.

Worth it? Duh.

 

if if if.... i'm sure GM could do it but it will never happen... why would they? they killed off the camaro and are platform sharing the vette!

as far as the STi being worth it? yes.. it is
it's definately worth it... 75 extra hp might not be much because you can just crank up the boost on a regular WRX and make the same power... BUT you get essentially a stoker kit, a reinforced block, the TD04 is replaced with an IHI VF series turbo, mylobdenum coated pistons, a few other internal tweaks i cant remember plus the suspension and tires package

from a tuning standpoint, you can do alot more with an STi then a regular WRX... so yeah, it's worth it

 

Not to mention that the STI has a semi closed deck block for added strength.

Dont underestimate AWD turbo cars. Sombody has already got the new lancers to run 12.5 in the 1/4 mi with just bolt on parts. They pull near 1 G stock.

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showth...&highlight=evo

I expect the STI to turn even better times with simple mods given its larger displacement. Given about $1500 in mods these two cars would absolutely RAPE even the almighty zo6 on the street.

Really cant argue with numbers. You can even drive these cars year round.

 

I never said the SS wasn't better. But installing $400 worth of more expensive parts and charging $4,000 doesn't seem like a value to me. They give away ram-air on Grand Am GT's, so why again should it cost so much on say, a Firebird? Almost every other performance car had 17" wheels as standard or an option, but on Camaro you had to buy an SS. You could say exclusivity, but SS was limited only by how many they could sell. Other than the fact that the Z28 was dulled down to look like a base model, what made the SS package worth it? I don't see much.

You didn't have to pay $30,000 to get a good looking Mustang (if you did, you at least got a unique engine). And people wondered why they sold more Mustang GT's than Camaros...

 

What Subaru has done with the WRX and STi is little different than what Detroit has done with its cars for the last 40 years or so - take a relatively ho-hum base model, dress it up with some honest performance parts (many of which draw from factory racing efforts), and sell that vehicle with a healthy profit margin. The end customer ends up with a somewhat-exclusive car with healthy performance, so he thinks he's getting a bargain, and the OEM ends up with a nice "halo" vehicle that draws people into showroom.

Open up your minds a bit, and the STi is a hell of a lot like a top-of-the-line late-60s musclecar. The performance is there, the racing heritage is there, and frankly the base Impreza ain't that bad of a car so you still end up with a practical, usable vehicle.

 

Are you saying the SS amounted to $400 worth of parts? I couldn't do a tire/wheel upgrade on my Z28 for less than $1,000! Furthermore, don't confuse the "Ram-Air" on a Grand Am GT with full-monty SLP conversion.

Anyway, it would be fair to say that the Z28 Camaro will be the last 300hp+ muscle car to have 16 inch tires. I was just as happy that my Z28 had a relatively high-profile tires because I valued a degree of ride comfort. Judging by the number of luxury cars with 18" rims and 45-profile tires, ride comfort doesn't have to suffer because of performance rubber. There again, most of those cars have way more wheel travel than the F-body, and alot more sophisticated shock absorber valving.

Finally, I'm sick of arguing the "cheap" Mustang GT vs. "expensive" Z28 arguement. The F4 is dead, and so is the value arguement. If you're saying that only the Camaro SS could compete with the GT on the basis of styling...

Time moves on, and the Dodge SRT-4 has taken up the cheap performance mantle. Maybe its time for us to argue Mustang GT versus Insane Turbo Neon. The little Dodge even has 17" rims.

 

Had Camaro on the brain...

But is 75 horsepower and half a second to 60 (if I'm not wrong on that) really worth $6,000?

 

Actually... Redplanet himself was actually one of the guys here who said that till the C5 got active handling, the Camaro Z28 would slightly outrun a non Z06 Corvette around the track.

Every test I ever saw of the SS and Z28 of the last few years showed next to no difference in horsepower, and though the SS rides rougher, minimal differences in handling. SS has the edge, but it still boiled down to $3-4,000 for a hoodscoop, badges and a rougher ride. Being that unlike Ford's SVT cars, Chevrolet didn't make SS a limited edition, there isn't anything exclusive about it.

Worth it?

 

No, I'm saying the INCREMENTAL COST to General Motors to install 17" wheels and tires instead of 16's and a taller spoiler instead of a shorter one and thicker swaybars instead of thinner and one hood instead of the other, etc. is a lot closer to $400 than $4000.

 

Not when a Z28 was pretty much completed on the assembly line then sent to SLP to become a SS.