'08 GTO news....with pic!
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,881
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by SGT Posaune
[rant]
The sports car market has changed. It is not 1960, 70, 80, 90 anymore. what worked back then won't work now. The market is different now than it was when the camaro went on hiatus. The formula for a Ponycar/musclecar must be able to adapt. I'm not saying transform, just adapt. The 4th Gen is (arguably) the best performing Camaro every made (generalizing) from the factory. That didn't make it a great....er even good car, because it was not user-friendly enough. Part of the reason sales tanked (I know there were MANY reasons for the hiatus and poor sales, and have read all of the threads on here about it) and the car put on hiatus. If the Camaro can not offer better ergononics, packaging, and as options, things like quad coupe doors it won't survive again.
Will optional quad coupe doors really make your standard coupe camaro any less? NO
Could they help bring in other customers that wouldn't have considered a Camaro? Yes
Not to mention, for those of us with practical spouses, it could help justify a Ponycar purchase, and it would give the Camaro one more item to help give it a leg up on the mustang. Help steal some of those sales.
[/RANT]
P.S. How many of you would like to have about ten inches less of door to try and open and climb into? How many times have you had to slither into your Camaro because a car was parked to close beside yours when you came out from the store?
The sports car market has changed. It is not 1960, 70, 80, 90 anymore. what worked back then won't work now. The market is different now than it was when the camaro went on hiatus. The formula for a Ponycar/musclecar must be able to adapt. I'm not saying transform, just adapt. The 4th Gen is (arguably) the best performing Camaro every made (generalizing) from the factory. That didn't make it a great....er even good car, because it was not user-friendly enough. Part of the reason sales tanked (I know there were MANY reasons for the hiatus and poor sales, and have read all of the threads on here about it) and the car put on hiatus. If the Camaro can not offer better ergononics, packaging, and as options, things like quad coupe doors it won't survive again.
Will optional quad coupe doors really make your standard coupe camaro any less? NO
Could they help bring in other customers that wouldn't have considered a Camaro? Yes
Not to mention, for those of us with practical spouses, it could help justify a Ponycar purchase, and it would give the Camaro one more item to help give it a leg up on the mustang. Help steal some of those sales.
[/RANT]
P.S. How many of you would like to have about ten inches less of door to try and open and climb into? How many times have you had to slither into your Camaro because a car was parked to close beside yours when you came out from the store?
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by 91Z28350
The American muscle car never was, and I sure as hell hope never is, a v-8 stuffed in a 4 door family sedan. Are most of you who keep saying the 4 door option is ok, really going to hop up the family truckster and take it to the strip? Go SCCA racing with it? If you ABSOLUTELY MUST have a muscle car, either buy a used one and have it as a toy, or deal with putting the car seat in the rear(I did it in the Camaro, so can you!). In the meantime, I will thank you very much to quit ****ting on our performance COUPE heritage.
1) Gas Slobbering Carberators - Who needs fuel injection?
2) 1st Gen Suspension - We don't care about them there curves around here! We's do that Straight line stuff.
3) Bias-Ply Tires - Who needs radials?
4) Solid Front Bench seat - Guess we can snuggle up close to our honey now and see what she can do with that Long Throw shifter!
Point being - Technology is constantly improving and people are becoming more innovative. Let's not look at some new ideas so blindly.
People thought fuel injection was the end of the world when IT first came out.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 47
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
It almost seems you are trying to imply that, somehow 4 door sedans equal "progress". You probably want to back off this implication a bit. Its absurd.
Those of us that won't buy a 4 door simply want our preferences made available. There is not a reason in the world that both 2 and 4 door versions of the new RWD platform (whatever it winds up being) cannot or should not be made available.
I hate to be a naysayer here, but one can almost see it coming. GM screws it up AGAIN with the GTO and maybe the new Camaro too. Those fools don't appreciate the power those names have. After they are finished driving us to Ford and Chrysler (who most certainly DO "get it"), the fools at GM will conclude that there was no market for small/intermediate sporty RWD/V8 coupes.
Those of us that won't buy a 4 door simply want our preferences made available. There is not a reason in the world that both 2 and 4 door versions of the new RWD platform (whatever it winds up being) cannot or should not be made available.
I hate to be a naysayer here, but one can almost see it coming. GM screws it up AGAIN with the GTO and maybe the new Camaro too. Those fools don't appreciate the power those names have. After they are finished driving us to Ford and Chrysler (who most certainly DO "get it"), the fools at GM will conclude that there was no market for small/intermediate sporty RWD/V8 coupes.
Originally Posted by Chrome383Z
If you really want true Heritage "American Muscle" lets include the following:
1) Gas Slobbering Carberators - Who needs fuel injection?
2) 1st Gen Suspension - We don't care about them there curves around here! We's do that Straight line stuff.
3) Bias-Ply Tires - Who needs radials?
4) Solid Front Bench seat - Guess we can snuggle up close to our honey now and see what she can do with that Long Throw shifter!
Point being - Technology is constantly improving and people are becoming more innovative. Let's not look at some new ideas so blindly.
People thought fuel injection was the end of the world when IT first came out.
1) Gas Slobbering Carberators - Who needs fuel injection?
2) 1st Gen Suspension - We don't care about them there curves around here! We's do that Straight line stuff.
3) Bias-Ply Tires - Who needs radials?
4) Solid Front Bench seat - Guess we can snuggle up close to our honey now and see what she can do with that Long Throw shifter!
Point being - Technology is constantly improving and people are becoming more innovative. Let's not look at some new ideas so blindly.
People thought fuel injection was the end of the world when IT first came out.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,881
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by dfmoeller
It almost seems you are trying to imply that, somehow 4 door sedans equal "progress". You probably want to back off this implication a bit. Its absurd.
Those of us that won't buy a 4 door simply want our preferences made available. There is not a reason in the world that both 2 and 4 door versions of the new RWD platform (whatever it winds up being) cannot or should not be made available.
I hate to be a naysayer here, but one can almost see it coming. GM screws it up AGAIN with the GTO and maybe the new Camaro too. Those fools don't appreciate the power those names have. After they are finished driving us to Ford and Chrysler (who most certainly DO "get it"), the fools at GM will conclude that there was no market for small/intermediate sporty RWD/V8 coupes.
Those of us that won't buy a 4 door simply want our preferences made available. There is not a reason in the world that both 2 and 4 door versions of the new RWD platform (whatever it winds up being) cannot or should not be made available.
I hate to be a naysayer here, but one can almost see it coming. GM screws it up AGAIN with the GTO and maybe the new Camaro too. Those fools don't appreciate the power those names have. After they are finished driving us to Ford and Chrysler (who most certainly DO "get it"), the fools at GM will conclude that there was no market for small/intermediate sporty RWD/V8 coupes.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by falchulk
I dont get this, if you like the coupe profile and the quad coupe provide's that, whats the problem? I doubt weight is an issue for guys that own cars with the 1 ton doors like our camaros. There is no reason both doors combined will be heavier then our cars doors. I think this is more a b!tch on principal.
A quad door setup almost has to weigh more than a two door setup... might not be all that much, but it's still gotta weight more.
But that is not the worst part.... the worst part is that a quad-coupe design adds unsightly body seems and parting lines. It "uglies up" the side of the car, and in the case of the RX-8, you get a goofy roofline, B-Pillar and C-Pillar.
That's why I think Monte Carlo is such a better place to try a quad coupe... it's higher volume... lower priced... it would benefit more from it... MC has been a "larger personal mid-luxury coupe"... much better placement of the design that on a sports car / muscle car that is much more dependant on looks.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Darth,
I agree I think the MC would be an Excellent! car to add Quad doors. My Mother has a 04' MC I think and now that we have children it's a PITA trying to put a Car seat in the back. Monte Carlo looks - w/ Impala Functionality = Sales, IMO.
1st it's not a 4 Door Sedan, if they did that yes than I would say that's a Mistake. This is a "QUAD DOOR" setup. Completely different.
There's not much since arguing over something that isn't even in existance yet, but this does bring up one idea/point.
[RANT]
I have come to believe that enthusiasts care about nothing but themselves (has anybody else realized this). They/we have no consideration about what might sell better for GM and to the General Population not just a bunch of crazed old men with beer bellies and confederate flags flying.
You might as well buy an earlier (1-4) gen camaro that suits your fancy and put a 5th Gen powertrain in it. God I think you'd all be much happier.
[/RANT]
Back to this thread though, I do believe that the picture of the new GTO looks hellaciously better then the current GTO. It won't suit everybodies fancy but it does have "character" written all over it. I don't like the Chargers front end - but it does do more for me then the current GTO and I will always notice a Charger going down the road. The GTO's blend in... IMO.
I agree I think the MC would be an Excellent! car to add Quad doors. My Mother has a 04' MC I think and now that we have children it's a PITA trying to put a Car seat in the back. Monte Carlo looks - w/ Impala Functionality = Sales, IMO.
Originally Posted by dfmoeller
It almost seems you are trying to imply that, somehow 4 door sedans equal "progress". You probably want to back off this implication a bit. Its absurd.
Those of us that won't buy a 4 door simply want our preferences made available. There is not a reason in the world that both 2 and 4 door versions of the new RWD platform (whatever it winds up being) cannot or should not be made available.
I hate to be a naysayer here, but one can almost see it coming. GM screws it up AGAIN with the GTO and maybe the new Camaro too. Those fools don't appreciate the power those names have. After they are finished driving us to Ford and Chrysler (who most certainly DO "get it"), the fools at GM will conclude that there was no market for small/intermediate sporty RWD/V8 coupes.
Those of us that won't buy a 4 door simply want our preferences made available. There is not a reason in the world that both 2 and 4 door versions of the new RWD platform (whatever it winds up being) cannot or should not be made available.
I hate to be a naysayer here, but one can almost see it coming. GM screws it up AGAIN with the GTO and maybe the new Camaro too. Those fools don't appreciate the power those names have. After they are finished driving us to Ford and Chrysler (who most certainly DO "get it"), the fools at GM will conclude that there was no market for small/intermediate sporty RWD/V8 coupes.
There's not much since arguing over something that isn't even in existance yet, but this does bring up one idea/point.
[RANT]
I have come to believe that enthusiasts care about nothing but themselves (has anybody else realized this). They/we have no consideration about what might sell better for GM and to the General Population not just a bunch of crazed old men with beer bellies and confederate flags flying.
You might as well buy an earlier (1-4) gen camaro that suits your fancy and put a 5th Gen powertrain in it. God I think you'd all be much happier.
[/RANT]
Back to this thread though, I do believe that the picture of the new GTO looks hellaciously better then the current GTO. It won't suit everybodies fancy but it does have "character" written all over it. I don't like the Chargers front end - but it does do more for me then the current GTO and I will always notice a Charger going down the road. The GTO's blend in... IMO.
Last edited by Chrome383Z; Aug 4, 2005 at 09:00 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by Chrome383Z
Darth,
I agree I think the MC would be an Excellent! car to add Quad doors. My Mother has a 04' MC I think and now that we have children it's a PITA trying to put a Car seat in the back. Monte Carlo looks - w/ Impala Functionality = Sales, IMO.
I agree I think the MC would be an Excellent! car to add Quad doors. My Mother has a 04' MC I think and now that we have children it's a PITA trying to put a Car seat in the back. Monte Carlo looks - w/ Impala Functionality = Sales, IMO.
Being that my current car is a 2004 GTO, and my last car was a 2002 Monte Carlo SS... I can say from 1st hand experience that the MC would have been the much much better place for quad doors.... it just would "feel right" on that car... not even close on the Goat.
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Posts: 1,881
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
Being that my current car is a 2004 GTO, and my last car was a 2002 Monte Carlo SS... I can say from 1st hand experience that the MC would have been the much much better place for quad doors.... it just would "feel right" on that car... not even close on the Goat.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by falchulk
You would likely never even notice them. If you did no need the extra doors, it would be just like a coupe.
I have to disagree.
I can notice the body seems on any "four door coupe"... and most, if not all of them have goofy B and/or C-pillars, if not goofy rooflines.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,881
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
I have to disagree.
I can notice the body seems on any "four door coupe"... and most, if not all of them have goofy B and/or C-pillars, if not goofy rooflines.
I can notice the body seems on any "four door coupe"... and most, if not all of them have goofy B and/or C-pillars, if not goofy rooflines.
I understand and completely agree to a point. But consider what it would be like if GM did it right and was truly innovative about integrating it into the styling. Then I cant see a reason to not like it. Is that unlikely? Yes. But there is a chance.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by falchulk
I understand and completely agree to a point. But consider what it would be like if GM did it right and was truly innovative about integrating it into the styling. Then I cant see a reason to not like it. Is that unlikely? Yes. But there is a chance.
I don't think we are all that far appart.... I agree there is a place for it... I just don't think that place is GTO (or Camaro)... That's why I keep throwing MC out there for it... or heck, even something with an all-new name.
MC just seems to be the perfect spot though....
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
That's why I think Monte Carlo is such a better place to try a quad coupe... it's higher volume... lower priced... it would benefit more from it... MC has been a "larger personal mid-luxury coupe"... much better placement of the design that on a sports car / muscle car that is much more dependant on looks.
[sarcasm] You must be on crack! The Monte Carlo has ALWAYS been a two door coupe. Ever since 1970. How can you have more than 2 doors on a Monte Carlo? In fact it used to weigh over 2 tons. What's the idea with these new lighter ones? Two tons gives you "presence", less gives you no respect. Plus my buddy told me more weight gives you more taction and better handling. Where's the velour interior and spoked hubcaps? WHERE!!!! If GM were smart, they'd come out with a 2 ton, 2 door Monte Carlo, with velour seats and spoked hubcaps....and if it came with an LS7 and auto (haven't learned to drive stick yet)....and sold it for $18,000......I'd buy one.....ummm...used. That is after I graduate HS and get a job. Either that or I'll get my sister's Tercel.
If anyone from GM is reading this:
1) I think you guys are morons.
2) I'd like a job as a product planner.
[/sarcasm]
Don't hold your breathe for any new variants of the Monte Carlo, Darth.
On the other hand, there are people within GM, that want to see a next gen GTO, and are struggling to create a business case. Let's give them some lattitude.
Last edited by Z284ever; Aug 4, 2005 at 11:29 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,646
From: Portland, OR
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by Z284ever
If anyone from GM is reading this:
1) I think you guys are morons.
2) I'd like a job as a product planner.[/i]
[/sarcasm]
On the other hand, there are people within GM, that want to see a next gen GTO, and are struggling to create a business case. Let's give them some lattitude.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
Re: '08 GTO news....with pic!
Originally Posted by Z284ever
[sarcasm] You must be on crack! The Monte Carlo has ALWAYS been a two door coupe. Ever since 1970. How can you have more than 2 doors on a Monte Carlo? In fact it used to weigh over 2 tons. What's the idea with these new lighter ones? Two tons gives you "presence", less gives you no respect. Plus my buddy told me more wieght gives you more taction and better handling. Where's the velour interior and spoked hubcaps? WHERE!!!! If GM were smart, they'd come out with a 2 ton, 2 door Monte Carlo, with velour seats and spoked hubcaps....and if it came with an LS7 and auto (haven't learned to drive stick yet)....and sold it for $18,000......I'd buy one.....ummm...used. That is after I graduate HS and get a job. Either that or I'll get my sister's Tercel.
If anyone from GM is reading this:
1) I think you guys are morons.
2) I'd like a job as a product planner.
[/sarcasm]
Don't hold your breathe for any new variants of the Monte Carlo, Darth.
On the other hand, there are people within GM, that want to see a next gen GTO, and are struggling to create a business case. Let's give them some lattitude.
If anyone from GM is reading this:
1) I think you guys are morons.
2) I'd like a job as a product planner.
[/sarcasm]
Don't hold your breathe for any new variants of the Monte Carlo, Darth.
On the other hand, there are people within GM, that want to see a next gen GTO, and are struggling to create a business case. Let's give them some lattitude.