If you have a blower, locating them where mine are is NOT a good idea. George has done quite a bit of damage to the wires with broken blower belts on the same setup.....

There are two more pics of each side:

http://cjcfo.fbody.com/members/injun...tos/CoilsL.jpg

http://cjcfo.fbody.com/members/injun...tos/CoilsR.jpg

Fred

[This message has been edited by Injuneer 94FormM6 (edited July 02, 2002).]

 

Ok. That is a little better(also explains why it seemed smaller ).

So now I question why? Since the optical section is exposed to the elements via the plug access (everything else is sealed and vacuum ports capped), what is the purpose of an extremely expensive (though pretty) cap?

Not trying to nitpick but I'm missing something.

-CAL

 

The purpose of this thread was to find a way to eliminate the opti. The general concensous is that the opti itself is not a bad idea, it's execution is though.
The placing of the HV section seems to add to the problem as well. You might notice that as people start putting on ACCEL systems to increase spark voltage they start having more problems with the opti, such as it going out more frequently.
There is also the problem that the opti is notorious for letting outside moisture in.
So now that there is no high voltage part you can use a metal cap to cover everything and it was created with the intention of sealing the opti better and to make it's life span signifigantly longer.
I believe a base is in the process of being created as well maybe the plug piece can be moved so as to not lett water in, or maybe a different connection all together.

Curt, any word on a beefed up base for the opti?

 

The base seems more than adequate, haven't found a reason to replace it. The only problem that seems to arise from the base is the bearing itself -- not that it's a bad design or inadequate, it just wears out. The good news is that it can be replaced and it doesn't sound like it's too hard to do. One of the design considerations in making the cap was to add additional support to make the shaft more stable and extend the life of the bearing. The rotor is also eliminated.

Luna -- I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. How is the optical section exposed to the elements via the plug access? I'm assuming you're talking about the connector that sits at the 10 o'clock position (since that plug was referenced earlier in this thread). I can see how it could be a problem, but I don't agree that it's a poor design that is prone to leak provided that it's maintained properly. I have noticed that over time, those seals become dry and contaminated from being disconnected/reconnected (especially true when handling them with dirty, greasy hands). What I have always done (with all the GM weather packs) is whenever I disconnect one, I remove the little silicone gasket, wash it, give it a coat of dielectric grease and inspect the receiving socket for debris/damage before plugging it back in. I also try to make sure my hands are clean whenever I handle the connectors. Not only does it ensure that the connector remains water tight, but it also will disconnect easily next time around. I consider it preventitive maintenance. Yeah, it's a bit ****, but I've never had a problem with moisture or corrosion with the electrical system, and I wash my engine bay with carwash and a garden hose on a regular basis.

 

am installing a crank trigger on my 396 stoker. I also purchased the FAST system. I have read posts that you can remove the hi-voltage connections out of the opti and use the remainder for cam senor
Has anyone done this ?

Also what parts do u take out of the opti so there is no more High voltage parts.

Thanks

 

The optical section of the Opti contains a cam position sensor... that is the function of the low resolution pulses. FAST and MoTeC (and I suspect other aftermarket systems) can use the low res signal for cam
position.

And, as I explained in my e-mail, you don't physically have to "remove" anything... simply by not having the coil wire and plug wires connected, you have eliminated the high voltage function, and have eliminated the resulting formation of ozone, and any potential electrical linterference with the optical processor. If you happen to have the Opti apart, you could remove the rotor, but that's all there is in the "high voltage" section. Curt's cover eliminates the plug and coil wire towers and contacts for the high voltage function.

Fred

 

Ken, no problem with that. What particular reason do you have for perferring another location? What alternate location do you have in mind? I prefer the traditional valve cvr. location, for a couple of reasons. Proximity to plugs, which is why it is referred to as a CNP system, and second, GM's choice carried alot of weight with me.

Although ingenious, didn't care for the location Fred used, exposing the coils to the elements/moisture. In Fred's case, it works well for him, especially with the limited use and the unlikely possibility of usage in the rain. I am confident those reasons figured into Fred's decision to locate coils where he did.



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I'll be back

[This message has been edited by arnie (edited July 04, 2002).]

 

What would I use for spark???

If you don't hook up the coil or spark plug wires to the opti, what are you
going to use to distribute the spark?? You can use the crank trigger to
tell it when to fire, but you have no means of getting the spark there,
unless I am missing something.

So the options are to use the opti or go to a coil system. What is everyone's thought about tapping the intake and putting in a MSD distributor?

If I do go with the LS1 coil setup does anyone have a list of parts to buy and the exact directions of what i need to have done ?



[This message has been edited by TazZ28 (edited July 05, 2002).]

 

Thats my problem, the plug port is the only place water can come in so a CNCd cover seems to be nothing more than window dressing.


Just don't use the HV section like others are doing an seal off the vacuum lines.

 

The plug port is not the only place water can come in. Since there are three layers (Opti base, plastic divider and cap), there are several places that water can work it's way into. The seal between the cap, the plastic divider and the Opti isn't that great and is more prone to leak than the plug (which uses a triple flange silicone gasket). The bearing isn't sealed between the base or shaft either, so that could be another "prone" area. And I have no idea how well the towers are made where the coil and plug wires go -- I suspect that they could leak as well. What premise are you basing the problematic leakage at the plug port on, theory or fact?

If you would have read my entire post, you would have understood why the cap was designed the way it was -- not to be just "icing on the cake". But I digress -- some people will never understand (or choose not to understand because it doesn't follow their "logic"), which compels me to say "then just don't get one".

Taz -- the answers are right here in this thread. Go back to the beginning and read all the posts and look at the links that people have posted. The systems that several of us are using (although physically different use a similar principle) have separate coils that fire the cylinders independantly (direct fire method, 8 coils) or in pairs (aka "lost spark method", 4 coils with two plug towers on each one). The crank trigger (at least on my system) only sequences the coil packs -- the Opti still drives the ECM (which sequences the injectors). The ECM still controls the overall timing. FWIW, the Opti is much more accurate than a crank trigger. Here's a link to some pictures of my E'motive SDI Opti-Eliminator setup.

 

Ok I reread everything and will not use the crank trigger and will just use the opti for that portion.

So the options are to use the opti alone or go to a coil system and use part of the opti.
What is everyone's thought about tapping the intake and putting in a MSD distributor.

If I do go with the LS1 coil setup does anyone have a list of parts to buy and the exact directions of what i need to have done ?

 

Well, an MSD may be OK for an aftermarket engine management system, but your stock PCM would go nuts. Even on the SDI, if the crank trigger is not exactly in sync with the opti input, the pcm goes crazy and throws all kinds of codes. However, using the new MSD CPC system may be OK; someone has said there is a way to do it. YOu would make the hole at the back of the intake and put their plug in then use their system. I am not sure exactly how to do it; the price is too high for me to even look into it as I will be doing 2 or 3 of my LT1 cars when I do upgrade my ignition system.

Ryan

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1994 Z28 A4, Vortech, Borla with EBorla, TPIS 52 mm TB, Hooker shorties, Electromotive SDI, LS1 brakes, AAM 3.42 rear, more.

 

Hey Curt, I just put 2 and 2 together. We spoke on the phone for an hour or 2 a few months back. I had just bought the SDI and you were the ONLY person that was able to give me the answers I needed.

Thanks for coming over and helping on this!!

Ryan

 

The PLUG is the 4 wire dist harness. Try this : Blow on one of the vacuum connectors and listen to where the air comes out.

Next test apply a vaccum to the ports (since that is the normal condition) and put a slight stream of colored water over the connector. You will be notice a good deal of colored water in the works.

You can also notice that more people are having opti harness failures. Hell, I just took off an opti that was filledup with coolant and the harness was brand spanking new and coated with dielectric. This little fiasco was caused by a pinhole in the TB coolant line. When you see dexcool (or the bluegreen crystals), it is pretty obvious what the sources is. Especially when the rest of the seals display no signs.


Oh I read it, there just isn't any credence. Why do you think it is a water pump that is the cause of opti failure in most cases and not road conditions?

Even so, why the expense of a machined cap when you can do the same this with a $5 tube of UltraBlue? You still have a seal to contend with both ways.


Truthfully, it sounds like a horse**** ploy to me. It is a decoration. There is absolutely no reason for needing the machined cap when the same can (and has) been done by many others for the cost of gasket seal.

The idea of this thread is to produce an Opti Eliminator. This isn't being done.

So now I ask you the same. You state the seal between the cap/divider/base isn't that great(even if it were bad, wouldn't a rebuild with a better gasket/sealant make more sense?). What premise are you basing the problematic leakage not being at the plug port on, theory or fact?

-CAL

 

Well, I couldn't care less if I have an optical pickup or points.....as long as it works and is somewhat reliable. What are the weak points of the opti??

=High voltage section promotes the degradation of the metal components in the opti.

=water gets in

=bearings fail.

=cap and rotor fails

=pain in the butt to change your plug wires

OK, now... what can be done to help relolve some of these problems??

1. Get high voltage out of the opti. (Gee, seems like we have heard this about a million times.)

2. Reduce the points where the water can enter. This would mean maybe getting rid of the plastic cap with a, a, hmmm, aluminum cover maybe??

3. Do something to reduce the load that the bearing is getting. Hmmmm...... what could we do..... Not... quite.... sure..... Oh!! Wait!! How about an aluminum cover that has an EXTRA bearing to help distribute the load?? Hey! Good idea! maybe someone should make a cap like that.

4. Get rid of the cap and rotor and it won't fail...

5. Make your plug wires come from somewhere else besides the opti.

I am sure some of you may be getting the point here. I started this thread. I want people that want to help. I DO NOT want people b!tching. If you see a problem, how about politely pointing it out instead of being a *****?? In order to develop any new product, it takes the cooperation of many. Someone that does not cooperate in an R&D team is sometimes seen standing in the median with a "Will work for food" sign.

How about we turn of whining mode and turn back on thought and suggestion mode?

I think the cap is a good idea. Not necessarily to keep ALL water out but to reduce the probability of it coming in. A plastic cap can break. The aluminum cap would just dent or scratch. The stock cap is not capable of getting a supplemental bearing to make the optical pickup more rigid; the aluminum cap is. OK....the plug problem. They have these new materials called SEALANTS. You just put a sealant where something leaks and it doesn't leak anymore. If it is leaking at the base of the receptacle, who says we can't use something as simple as epoxy to seal it?? Now, if it is the plug leaking, the careful inspection of the gasket and making sure it is properly lubricated will fix that. Still skeptical?? How bout some sealing heat shrink over the plug and wires?? If the opti does fail (we all know it will someday) you just take a sharp instrument called a knife and cut the heat shrink off.

Stepping off my soap box. Putting on Nomex suit....

Ryan

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1994 Z28 A4, Vortech, Borla with EBorla, TPIS 52 mm TB, Hooker shorties, Electromotive SDI, LS1 brakes, AAM 3.42 rear, more.